Trumps Shout-Out to Norway

[deleted_user0]

OK, so what is wrong with a country that exercises its right to refuse to get more migrants from particular undeveloped countries?

Especially if they don't have any special qualifications that would make them valuable to the host economy.

that's actually very problematic. It's not that problematic to refuse migrants from any country if they don't have special qualifications. But to accept them from one country, but not another, that's something else.

[deleted_user0]

Who are these "unnamed sources"? Don't you think they could be making shit up for political reasons? Other people have said that the comments are being reported differently from what was actually said.

Those countries are shitholes. The reason they are shitholes is precisely because the people there have a shitty culture. You can compare them to countries with a similar history and geopolitical situation, and generally see that different countries end up differently, because people have agency. If these were wonderful countries full of wonderful people, people would not be braving death and worse just to escape.

yea, it's funny that all the people trying to defend trump do so only by diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem. it's like calling someone a fat fucking retarded bitch, and then when you're called to attention for it, say, but... but... she's actually above average weight :( WHY CANT I SAY THE TRUTH?!!?

[godzillaking]

How that idiot ever made it to office is beyond any logic.

When it is trash vs trash in the in the election...

[Dolan]

that's actually very problematic. It's not that problematic to refuse migrants from any country if they don't have special qualifications. But to accept them from one country, but not another, that's something else.

But isn't it up to every country to draft their migration policies? They can decide which people from which country to reject, based on a set of criteria, like:
- we don't take people from country X because they hosted terrorist cells and we can't verify them all
- people from country Y come from an area plagued by a tropical disease that may go undetected, while dormant
- citizens of country Z increase the rate of crime, as it's been shown in the past

[Jam]

OK, so what is wrong with a country that exercises its right to refuse to get more migrants from particular undeveloped countries?

Especially if they don't have any special qualifications that would make them valuable to the host economy.

What do rights have to do with it, and Trump's comments don't reflect actual US immigration policy or the will of US citizens. Countries have a right to implement whatever immigration policy they want, and people have a right to criticize that policy. Saying you have a right to do it in response to criticism is the lowest form of defence. Reasonable people don't expect the USA to accept anyone and everyone who applies for immigration, just that the process is fair and rational. Saying that immigrants shouldn't be accepted from Africa because it's a "shithole" is neither, and is not just an insult to the many Africans who are good people, but to US citizens who immigrated from Africa and their children.

[deleted_user0]

that's actually very problematic. It's not that problematic to refuse migrants from any country if they don't have special qualifications. But to accept them from one country, but not another, that's something else.

But isn't it up to every country to draft their migration policies? They can decide which people from which country to reject, based on a set of criteria, like:
- we don't take people from country X because they hosted terrorist cells and we can't verify them all
- people from country Y come from an area plagued by a tropical disease that may go undetected, while dormant
- citizens of country Z increase the rate of crime, as it's been shown in the past

it's up to them, doesn't mean it's not problematic, or that it shouldn't be condemned? and if you believe people should be judged as individuals, and not s members of a group, that kind of policy is deeply problematic. for example, romanians actually have the reputation in europe that they are often involved with petty crimes, what if countries such as belgium based their policy on that, then a person like you (who i assume isn't involved with such things) couldnt have lived and worked in belgium. does that seem fair to you?

[lejend]

Saying that immigrants shouldn't be accepted from Africa because it's a "shithole"

Did he actually say that? I'm pretty sure he was talking about Temporary Protected Status, which is separate from the immigration system that most people go through. TPS is basically a temporary stay in the US while your country's recovering from natural disaster, etc. It is not a permanent stay. Trump was probably wondering why there were so many people from certain, "shithole countries", taking advantage of the program. My guess is that the answer was, "their country just suffered an earthquake or war" or whatever.

Since we don't have the full context of the remarks, it makes no sense to speculate.

[Dolan]

What do rights have to do with it, and Trump's comments don't reflect actual US immigration policy or the will of US citizens.

I think the idea here is that this guy got voted as president so he has the right to implement or propose whatever immigration policies he sees fit. When did past policy forbid any future adjustments? And, again, if he got voted by a majority of US states, he represents the will of US citizens. And yeah, I know that he didn't win the popular vote, I already commented on this during the election, I think it's a retarded electoral system.

Countries have a right to implement whatever immigration policy they want, and people have a right to criticize that policy. Saying you have a right to do it in response to criticism is the lowest form of defence.

Yeah, but it's all part of the political process. People have the right to criticise, but they already voted a president and that president now wants to implement some policies. Hate them or not, it's all a product of due political process. There's nothing really dysfunctional here. It's just that some people, probably mostly people who did not vote Trump, disagree with his policies. I don't see the problem here. And yeah, it is the lowest form of defence, but these are extraordinary times, when the most basic institutions are put to test, doubted, contested. People tend to disagree to the bone now, not just on some superficial issues. And even if it's the lowest form of defence, that doesn't make it invalid.

Reasonable people don't expect the USA to accept anyone and everyone who applies for immigration, just that the process is fair and rational. Saying that immigrants shouldn't be accepted from Africa because it's a "shithole" is neither, and is not just an insult to the many Africans who are good people, but to US citizens who immigrated from Africa and their children.

Well, the USA is free to set its criteria for acceptance of immigrants, just like any other country. And those criteria can be quite arbitrary sometimes. I know this, as someone who lives in Romania, and although we are a NATO ally, we still cannot travel without a visa to the US. Why? Because the USA has some criteria for accepting visa-free travel. At this moment they consider that the rate of rejection of applicants is too high to justify lifting the ban. But then again, that rate of rejection is high because US consulates and embassies keep that rejection rate high... So, in other words, probably the USA considers Romania too much of a shithole to allow visa-free travel from this country. Does that offend me? Shit, no. What do I care, it's their country, they can decide whomever they want to cross their borders and travel or stay there.

[TheInvincibleJannisary]

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

[lejend]

yea, it's funny that all the people trying to defend trump do so only by diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem. it's like calling someone a fat fucking retarded bitch, and then when you're called to attention for it, say, but... but... she's actually above average weight :( WHY CANT I SAY THE TRUTH?!!?

You seem unusually upset about this. Don't worry, in a few days you'll forget about it and move onto the next outrage du jour.

[deleted_user0]

yea, it's funny that all the people trying to defend trump do so only by diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem. it's like calling someone a fat fucking retarded bitch, and then when you're called to attention for it, say, but... but... she's actually above average weight :( WHY CANT I SAY THE TRUTH?!!?

You seem unusually upset about this. Don't worry, in a few days you'll forget about it and move onto the next outrage du jour.

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

[Lukas_L99]

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Could you elaborate?

[lejend]

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Germans stick together.

[lejend]

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

What? Quoting Rahm: “Take your tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

[deleted_user0]

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

What? Quoting Rahm: “Take your tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

I've said it already. It's not my fault you haven't learned how to read. I guess it wasn't on the curriculum in the university of life which you attended.

[lejend]

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

What? Quoting Rahm: “Take your tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

I've said it already. It's not my fault you haven't learned how to read. I guess it wasn't on the curriculum in the university of life which you attended.

"diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem"

And what problem is that?

[TheInvincibleJannisary]

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Could you elaborate?

sorry i couldn't find one with censored German flags

[Lukas_L99]

Show hidden quotes

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Could you elaborate?

sorry i couldn't find one with censored German flags

So calling countries with high corruption and high crime rates a shit hole while not making a connection to the people's ethnicity is racist... but generalizing people cause of their nationality is not?

By the way you can find pictures of people demonstrating against Islam in every decent country that doesn't oppress their population

[TheInvincibleJannisary]

Show hidden quotes

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Could you elaborate?

sorry i couldn't find one with censored German flags

So calling countries with high corruption and high crime rates a shit hole while not making a connection to the people's ethnicity is racist... but generalizing people cause of their nationality is not?

By the way you can find pictures of people demonstrating against Islam in every country

You are absolutely correct and I was wrong.

[Jam]

Show hidden quotes

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?

Spoken like a true German

Could you elaborate?

sorry i couldn't find one with censored German flags
[spoiler=][/spoiler]

So calling countries with high corruption and high crime rates a shit hole while not making a connection to the people's ethnicity is racist... but generalizing people cause of their nationality is not?

By the way you can find pictures of people demonstrating against Islam in every country

You are absolutely correct and I was wrong.

We'll never get this thread to 10 pages with that attitude!

[n0el]

OK, so what is wrong with a country that exercises its right to refuse to get more migrants from particular undeveloped countries?

Especially if they don't have any special qualifications that would make them valuable to the host economy.

Why don't you worry about your culture and let us worry about who comes to our isolated peninsula?

[Jam]

What do rights have to do with it, and Trump's comments don't reflect actual US immigration policy or the will of US citizens.

I think the idea here is that this guy got voted as president so he has the right to implement or propose whatever immigration policies he sees fit. When did past policy forbid any future adjustments? And, again, if he got voted by a majority of US states, he represents the will of US citizens. And yeah, I know that he didn't win the popular vote, I already commented on this during the election, I think it's a retarded electoral system.

The president doesn't have the right to implement any policy he wants though, it's still subject to approval and to the rule of law. Just because people voted for him does not mean that everything he comes up with for the next 4 years is the will of US citizens unless they predicted the future.

Countries have a right to implement whatever immigration policy they want, and people have a right to criticize that policy. Saying you have a right to do it in response to criticism is the lowest form of defence.

Yeah, but it's all part of the political process. People have the right to criticise, but they already voted a president and that president now wants to implement some policies. Hate them or not, it's all a product of due political process. There's nothing really dysfunctional here. It's just that some people, probably mostly people who did not vote Trump, disagree with his policies. I don't see the problem here. And yeah, it is the lowest form of defence, but these are extraordinary times, when the most basic institutions are put to test, doubted, contested. People tend to disagree to the bone now, not just on some superficial issues. And even if it's the lowest form of defence, that doesn't make it invalid.

I didn't say that due process isn't being followed so I don't know what your point is here. You're saying that if you vote for a politician you should then put your head down and accept everything they do for the next few years? If there is enough public pressure the government might change course, they don't legally have to, but it's an important part of democracy.

Reasonable people don't expect the USA to accept anyone and everyone who applies for immigration, just that the process is fair and rational. Saying that immigrants shouldn't be accepted from Africa because it's a "shithole" is neither, and is not just an insult to the many Africans who are good people, but to US citizens who immigrated from Africa and their children.

Well, the USA is free to set its criteria for acceptance of immigrants, just like any other country. And those criteria can be quite arbitrary sometimes. I know this, as someone who lives in Romania, and although we are a NATO ally, we still cannot travel without a visa to the US. Why? Because the USA has some criteria for accepting visa-free travel. At this moment they consider that the rate of rejection of applicants is too high to justify lifting the ban. But then again, that rate of rejection is high because US consulates and embassies keep that rejection rate high... So, in other words, probably the USA considers Romania too much of a shithole to allow visa-free travel from this country. Does that offend me? Shit, no. What do I care, it's their country, they can decide whomever they want to cross their borders and travel or stay there.

[/quote]Requiring a visa or other form of security check to visit or immigrate to the USA is not offensive and isn't the issue with Trump's comments.

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

What? Quoting Rahm: “Take your tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

I've said it already. It's not my fault you haven't learned how to read. I guess it wasn't on the curriculum in the university of life which you attended.

"diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem"

And what problem is that?

judging people as a group, rather than as individuals. if you could read, you wouldve gotten that from trumps quotes.

[lejend]

Show hidden quotes

as usual you just assume stuff and are wrong.

and as usual you just ignore that for which you have no answer.

What? Quoting Rahm: “Take your tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

I've said it already. It's not my fault you haven't learned how to read. I guess it wasn't on the curriculum in the university of life which you attended.

"diverting attention to a minor issue and then pretend that's the whole problem"

And what problem is that?

judging people as a group, rather than as individuals. if you could read, you wouldve gotten that from trumps quotes.

If you're not posting the full context of the remarks, then this is just another circlejerk against Drumpf, which is more suitable to r/politics.

[Laurence Drake]

Agreed, all this irrational trump hate is really getting on my nerves. If it continues I will have no choice but to petition the mods to lock this thread!