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Great Britain oats13
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Posts: 211

13 Jan 2018, 14:40

Highly ironic as my brain stopped developing cells about 20 years ago (you can use that back on me if you like).

If it's not about the truth then I'm not interested tbh.

There is a media fatwa against trump and some jerk dem. decided to leak this for publicity- the whole thing makes the U.S. look ridiculous.

Trump uses colloquial language to put simply what everyone there understood and outrage ensues.

Look at this idiot- http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/12/polit ... index.html acting like he just lost his virginity- " I cannot believe that in the history of the Whitehouse......... any President has ever spoken the words I heard yesterday" is he for real?

No-one is saying (at least not me) that this is the way a president should behave in public but the fuss is over the nonsense racism charge, the reality is that what he said is rude but never needed to come to light but for one guy who is using faux-outrage to score political points (but who is actually making himself and american politics in general look bad).

Maybe the commies were right after all- western decadence will be it's undoing :hehe:
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United States of America TheInvincibleJannisary
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13 Jan 2018, 17:32

A redcoat defending the United States and her president.... now I've seen it all
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United States of America TheInvincibleJannisary
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13 Jan 2018, 20:30

This is an idea of what Trump means.
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United States of America Papist
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14 Jan 2018, 03:27

@oats13 The media created Donald Trump; he should be thanking them. If it weren't for the approximately $1 billion of free advertising he received throughout the presidential campaign, he would never have made it through the primaries, let alone gotten elected POTUS.

There is no "fatwa" - most of the negative news stories about Trump just repeat direct quotes from Trump. It just so happens that he says a lot of stupid/offensive shit on a daily basis.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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14 Jan 2018, 05:42

Well maybe the choice of words wasn't the greatest as a president but he still is right.

I mean where would you rather wanna live: Haiti, a country with high crime rate and corruption or in Norway, a country which was number one in the HDI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... ment_Index)?
No Flag umeu
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14 Jan 2018, 05:47

oats13 wrote:The guy who leaked it should have some class, people who get offended by the truth worry me frankly. Tbh the fuss isn't over that, everyone knows class isn't his strong suit- I think the fuss is about people thinking this is racist when it patently isn't.


so calling a country a shithole is truth. calling a racist a racist is decadence. makes sense now!
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Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
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No Flag lejend
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14 Jan 2018, 08:03

Those countries are shitholes though. That's kind of why the people are leaving the countries. But it is good for ratings to fake outrage over every little thing Trump says. It's kind of sad how every politician, celebrity and journalist on Earth attacks him just to get on the news.

My approval of him has increased a little.
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Cyprus Snuden
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14 Jan 2018, 08:13

Christianity is a shit religion.
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Sweden Gendarme
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14 Jan 2018, 08:16

I like Jesus.
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duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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14 Jan 2018, 10:54

Snuden wrote:Christianity is a shit religion.

And you are a shit poster
Top quality poster.
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Cyprus Snuden
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14 Jan 2018, 11:28

Laurence Drake wrote:
Snuden wrote:Christianity is a shit religion.

And you are a shit poster

Look who's talking.
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
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Great Britain oats13
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Posts: 211

14 Jan 2018, 13:30

umeu wrote:
oats13 wrote:The guy who leaked it should have some class, people who get offended by the truth worry me frankly. Tbh the fuss isn't over that, everyone knows class isn't his strong suit- I think the fuss is about people thinking this is racist when it patently isn't.


so calling a country a shithole is truth. calling a racist a racist is decadence. makes sense now!


No- I'm just saying that there is a hierarchy of values and that truth aught to be at the top of that hierarchy, separately I state that using our unprecedented wealth and position in the world to argue amongst ourselves over such speculative things is decadence from the communist perspective.

You have no proof that Donald Trump is racist- what you have is a mounting case of circumstantial evidence that he might be, one's voracity in turning one into the other is always instructive but never final.

It is important to maintain the distinction about truth because of course it works the other way as well- if Trump had said that The Bahamas was a shit-hole and that he would rather have people from Moldova then that would carry more weight as an indicator of bias because it is not true that the latter is more developed than the former and therefore would indicate ignorance at the least.
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No Flag Jam
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14 Jan 2018, 15:20

“Why are we having all these people from s***hole countries come here?”

Obviously he's saying that immigrants from those countries are shitty people. It's not like it's buried in the subtext.
Noticed by @SirCallen on Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:24 pm
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Romania Dolan
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14 Jan 2018, 15:40

Jam wrote:It's not like it's buried in the subtext.

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No Flag umeu
Gendarme
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14 Jan 2018, 15:59

oats13 wrote:
umeu wrote:
oats13 wrote:The guy who leaked it should have some class, people who get offended by the truth worry me frankly. Tbh the fuss isn't over that, everyone knows class isn't his strong suit- I think the fuss is about people thinking this is racist when it patently isn't.


so calling a country a shithole is truth. calling a racist a racist is decadence. makes sense now!


No- I'm just saying that there is a hierarchy of values and that truth aught to be at the top of that hierarchy, separately I state that using our unprecedented wealth and position in the world to argue amongst ourselves over such speculative things is decadence from the communist perspective.

You have no proof that Donald Trump is racist- what you have is a mounting case of circumstantial evidence that he might be, one's voracity in turning one into the other is always instructive but never final.

It is important to maintain the distinction about truth because of course it works the other way as well- if Trump had said that The Bahamas was a shit-hole and that he would rather have people from Moldova then that would carry more weight as an indicator of bias because it is not true that the latter is more developed than the former and therefore would indicate ignorance at the least.


Truth is insignificant without context. And it's the context that makes his statements problematic. Even if we ignore that he's a president, he's not just saying the countries are shitholes. You can try to divert attention to that, but anyone who has read the statement understand he's talking about people primarily, not about countries. As Jam said, he's implying the people are shit, either because they come from a shit country, or worse, that the countries are shit because the people are shit. Truth doesn't just mean literally. Because in that case, a shithole looks like this:
spoiler



and not like this:
spoiler
I kissed a girl and I liked it
Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my wife don't mind it
It felt so wrong, it felt so right
Don't mean I'm in love tonight
I kissed a girl and I liked it
I liked it
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Great Britain oats13
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Posts: 211

14 Jan 2018, 16:00

No, just no. You are projecting. He is not talking about people you lot are just deluded, im out.
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No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 7035

14 Jan 2018, 16:07

oats13 wrote:No, just no. You are projecting. He is not talking about people you lot are just deluded, im out.


don't let the door hit you on the way out. I might also suggest a reading course. Clearly, he said: Why do PEOPLE come here... if Trump was merely talking about countries, and believes that origin has no effect on people, then why would he mention the countries in the first fucking place? OR alternatively, if he was only talking about countries as international entities, why mention it's people?
I kissed a girl and I liked it
Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my wife don't mind it
It felt so wrong, it felt so right
Don't mean I'm in love tonight
I kissed a girl and I liked it
I liked it
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United States of America n0el
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14 Jan 2018, 16:11

Even the Republicans in the US agree he is a racist. I am not sure why you'd continue to defend it at this point....
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European Union jesus3
Lancer
Posts: 801
Location: some bunker, GDR

14 Jan 2018, 16:16

lol, running away from reality and shutting down completely as a response to a shattered world view. Classic adolescent behaviour
some random motivational quote
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No Flag Jam
Howdah
Posts: 1162
Location: still finding the right spot

14 Jan 2018, 16:21

oats13 wrote:No, just no. You are projecting. He is not talking about people you lot are just deluded, im out.
So he's talking about the countries immigrating to the USA? I don't know, Haiti is pretty small maybe you could fit it in the Gulf of Maine.

"President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they discussed protecting immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to several people briefed on the meeting.

“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.

Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday. The president, according to a White House official, also suggested he would be open to more immigrants from Asian countries because he felt that they help the United States economically.

In addition, the president singled out Haiti, telling lawmakers that immigrants from that country must be left out of any deal, these people said.

Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”
Noticed by @SirCallen on Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:24 pm
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Romania Dolan
Jaeger
Posts: 2037

14 Jan 2018, 16:43

OK, so what is wrong with a country that exercises its right to refuse to get more migrants from particular undeveloped countries?

Especially if they don't have any special qualifications that would make them valuable to the host economy.
Tuvalu gibson
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Posts: 6473
Location: USA

14 Jan 2018, 16:51

Dolan wrote:OK, so what is wrong with a country that exercises its right to refuse to get more migrants from particular undeveloped countries?

Especially if they don't have any special qualifications that would make them valuable to the host economy.


Why should anyone ever help anyone at all if the person helping isn't directly benefited? I guess you think charities are stupid as well since they don't gain anything from helping the underprivileged.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
The taste of her cherry chap stick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my boyfriend don't mind it
It felt so wrong, it felt so right
Don't mean I'm in love tonight
I kissed a girl and I liked it
I liked it
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No Flag lejend
Lancer
Posts: 523

14 Jan 2018, 16:56

Who are these "unnamed sources"? Don't you think they could be making shit up for political reasons? Other people have said that the comments are being reported differently from what was actually said.

Those countries are shitholes. The reason they are shitholes is precisely because the people there have a shitty culture. You can compare them to countries with a similar history and geopolitical situation, and generally see that different countries end up differently, because people have agency. If these were wonderful countries full of wonderful people, people would not be braving death and worse just to escape.
“The Party cannot be neutral towards religion... because it stands for science, whereas... all religion is the antithesis of science.” - Stalin

“Chinese socialism is founded upon Darwin and the theory of evolution.” - Mao Zedong
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Cyprus Snuden
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14 Jan 2018, 17:01

Maybe "underdeveloped" is a better word.
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
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Romania Dolan
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14 Jan 2018, 17:11

gibson wrote:Why should anyone ever help anyone at all if the person helping isn't directly benefited? I guess you think charities are stupid as well since they don't gain anything from helping the underprivileged.

Well Haitians were helped in the wake of the disaster that hit their island, but it's been like 8 years since then. At some point, they have to take their fate in their own hands and work towards improving their country, so that people wouldn't have to leave to live a decent life.

Is every poor or unfortunate person on this planet born with a right to live in the USA or another developed country? I wasn't born in a developed country, but I don't feel like the US or the West owes me a good life.

What would happen if billions of people living in undeveloped countries migrated all to developed countries? Would such a "solution" even be practical? Could the USA accommodate a few billions of people from poorer countries?

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