Trust in institutions

[Goodspeed]

please show the data to back up your claims or gtfo to reddit.

Uh what claim?

I don't really follow goodspeed's comment

It wasn't so much a comment on the picture as it was a general comment pointing out that religion itself is not based on data. Often, religious people are well-trained in either ignoring data or looking at it from some far fetched angle that supports their worldview. Lejend is especially adept at this.

[lemmings121]

Oh, well then Christianity is obviously the One True Faith

You are either troling or are just insane, in either case, its impossible to continue a rational discussion against a irrational tought process.

"well, I was born in a place and time where people taught me this religion THEREFORE, it is obviously the One True Faith"

[Snuden]

Oh, well then Christianity is obviously the One True Faith

You are either troling or are just insane, in either case, its impossible to continue a rational discussion against a irrational tought process.

"well, I was born in a place and time where people tought me this religion THEREFORE, it is obviously the One True Faith"

I believe it's called "Brainwashed"

[Gendarme]

"well, I was born in a place and time where people taught me this religion THEREFORE, it is obviously the One True Faith"

Your use of "therefore" is obviously (and perhaps intentionally) wrong. Furthermore, disregarding the previous point, the same could be said about many non-religious beliefs, many of which are far newer than the religious ones. Do you refute all of those as well?

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

Maybe , go from top to bottom, during hard times you turn to faith, prayers etc.. ie. hard times create religious men.
Now these men overcome hardships and usher in era of prosperity so religious men create good times.
Now during good times there are freeloaders and they will just be the opposition for sake of it or just like hey I don't like this. so good times create irreligious men.
Now these men are hell bent on destroying the system ex. terrorists. so irreligious ppl create hard times... idk maybe he meant something like this

So for example the inquisition, witch-hunt, creation of ISIS were/are all good times since they were pursued by very religious people?

Nope, they were the result of good times created by religious people, meaning ISIS is irreligious, meaning good times create irreligious people. Here I would like to term ISIS as irreligious men.

Look at it this way
1) There was a good time, prosperity everywhere, but everyone wanted more of the same pie.
2) People grew greedy etc... lost the path on which prosperity was built ie. became irreligious.
3) these irreligious men created hard times that is creation of ISIS etc...

probably shouldnt look at religion in it's literal meaning here

lol go tell isis theyre not religious. in fact, go tell the people who hate isis theyre not religious XD

anyway, prove to me that religious people create good times. hint? you can't. Not just the vast majority, but pretty much everyone has been religious in history for as long as we know it, up to pretty much the 15th century AD. So are you saying that the whole history up until that point has been the good times, and since then we're having the bad times?

Nope,
firstly I said in the post don't take the word religious literally.
I claim to be the best aoe 3 player, does that really make me? No similarly isis claiming to be religious doesn't make them religious. The religion they claim are following does not teach rape of women, killing of innocent children, sending children strapped with suicide bombs in market etc.. heck none of the religion preaches war.
Its basically matter of perspective... if you look from western world's or specifically america's perspective, after gaining independence from world's superpower of the time, surviving a civil war, 2 world wars, recessions, internal resistance, winning cold war etc, after so much efforts their vision of a prosperous and peaceful world was finally coming true... and was just shaken by isis al-Qaeda etc... Here isis etc are just the spoiled brats looking to uproot the system, that is what makes them irreligious in eyes of america and its not the faith they follow. like i said dont take the work religion literally here

then its just a pointless statement. lejend did mean it literally, and that's what i asked about.

also like gendarme said, its not up to you to claim if someone is religious or not. it's up to them. if they truly believe in god and their religious beliefs, that makes them religious. you can have a discussion about whether or not ISIS are true muslims, but you can't really have a debate about whether they are a religious organisation in general. There are undoubtedly people there who only claim to be religious so they don't get killed, or so they can kill murder and rape with impunity, but thats something else.

[Goodspeed]

"well, I was born in a place and time where people taught me this religion THEREFORE, it is obviously the One True Faith"

Your use of "therefore" is obviously (and perhaps intentionally) wrong. Furthermore, disregarding the previous point, the same could be said about many non-religious beliefs, many of which are far newer than the religious ones. Do you refute all of those as well?

Like the belief in a Zionist conspiracy?

[lemmings121]

"well, I was born in a place and time where people taught me this religion THEREFORE, it is obviously the One True Faith"

Your use of "therefore" is obviously (and perhaps intentionally) wrong.

Not intentional, as you might now i'm not a native speaker and i'm self taught, so mistakes happen, but I do believe that even with wrong grammar, you got the meaning of what I meant.

Furthermore, disregarding the previous point, the same could be said about many non-religious beliefs, many of which are far newer than the religious ones. Do you refute all of those as well?

no. what made you think of that?

[Lukas_L99]

Nope,
firstly I said in the post don't take the word religious literally.
I claim to be the best aoe 3 player, does that really make me? No similarly isis claiming to be religious doesn't make them religious. The religion they claim are following does not teach rape of women, killing of innocent children, sending children strapped with suicide bombs in market etc.. heck none of the religion preaches war.

[lemmings121]

Nope,
firstly I said in the post don't take the word religious literally.
I claim to be the best aoe 3 player, does that really make me? No similarly isis claiming to be religious doesn't make them religious. The religion they claim are following does not teach rape of women, killing of innocent children, sending children strapped with suicide bombs in market etc.. heck none of the religion preaches war.

Its the standard "holy book" reader, they will read what they want to read, not what is actually written there.

the bible says slavery is fine: "oohh but those where other times, things have changed and you must take that into consideration"
the bible says homo is wrong: "ohh its written! what is written cant be changed! we must do whats the book says!"


similarlly, some will say ISIS arent really religious because they read "in the wrong way", but in the end, everyone is cherrypicking what to read and what to ignore, and saying that everyone else is wrong for cherrypicking in a diferent way.

[lejend]

Maybe , go from top to bottom, during hard times you turn to faith, prayers etc.. ie. hard times create religious men.
Now these men overcome hardships and usher in era of prosperity so religious men create good times.
Now during good times there are freeloaders and they will just be the opposition for sake of it or just like hey I don't like this. so good times create irreligious men.
Now these men are hell bent on destroying the system ex. terrorists. so irreligious ppl create hard times... idk maybe he meant something like this

Possibly the things might be unrelat ed from each other but still happen synchronically. Hard times create men that are able to overcome the problems of their era, and at the same time hard times lead more men to turn to faith for support. Then the other way around happens with good times, although it's not necessairily thanks to religion that good times were achieved.

Something like that, yes. Those who struggle become deeply acquainted with the truths and value of life. They have great mental fortitude, great pride in themselves (but also humility), and great moral certainty. They have no room for delusion.

They fight off the enemy without doubt or compromise. They build a moral and prosperous society.

Their children, who are born into a good life, but have not fought for it or experienced a bad life, become slothful, weak, timid, relativist. They have no appreciation for what their ancestors passed onto them. They are easy prey for the enemy and lose everything.

Their children are born into struggle. And so history repeats.

This pattern is found everywhere, from civilizations to familial wealth. The parents struggle to create wealth for their children, the children squander it away.

(By children I don't necessarily mean it literally. I mean the first generation that renounces their ancestors' wisdom. It can be grandchildren or great-great-grandchildren)

I am surprised that the evolutionists on this forum, who believe humans are hundreds of thousands of years old, and complete products of their genes with no free will, somehow believe that 50 years of prosperity has made them a whole new type of animal.

Those who don't learn from history will repeat it.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.
-Alexander Fraser Tytler

[lejend]

It wasn't so much a comment on the picture as it was a general comment pointing out that religion itself is not based on data. Often, religious people are well-trained in either ignoring data or looking at it from some far fetched angle that supports their worldview. Lejend is especially adept at this.

What data am I ignoring? :mm:

[Lukas_L99]

Its the standard "holy book" reader, they will read what they want to read, not what is actually written there.

the bible says slavery is fine: "oohh but those where other times, things have changed and you must take that into consideration"
the bible says homo is wrong: "ohh its written! what is written cant be changed! we must do whats the book says!"


similarlly, some will say ISIS arent really religious because they read "in the wrong way", but in the end, everyone is cherrypicking what to read and what to ignore, and saying that everyone else is wrong for cherrypicking in a diferent way.

Why do people bring up the bible when we're talking about ISIS? One book having dumb passages doesn't make the other less stupid.
Also what is the "right way" to read it? Especially passages like sura 2 verse 223?

[gamevideo113]

This is an interest topic because i think we find ourselves in a time period which i wouldn't call neither "good times" nor "bad times". Most of us "millennials" live with decent quality of life: technology is available basically for everyone, instruction, sanity, transports etc etc, but there are also some problems that we will very likely end up having to deal with, like pollution, economical crysis and underwhelming governments. Will we be the children who squander what our ancestors built or will we become the strong men who make up for the mistakes of our fathers?

[edeholland]

This is an interest topic because i think we find ourselves in a time period which i wouldn't call neither "good times" nor "bad times". Most of us "millennials" live with decent quality of life: technology is available basically for everyone, instruction, sanity, transports etc etc, but there are also some problems that we will very likely end up having to deal with, like pollution, economical crysis and underwhelming governments. Will we be the children who squander what our ancestors built or will we become the strong men who make up for the mistakes of our fathers?

I would call it the "best times" though. Almost every aspect of living is now better than it has ever been before.

[lejend]

This is an interest topic because i think we find ourselves in a time period which i wouldn't call neither "good times" nor "bad times". Most of us "millennials" live with decent quality of life: technology is available basically for everyone, instruction, sanity, transports etc etc, but there are also some problems that we will very likely end up having to deal with, like pollution, economical crysis and underwhelming governments. Will we be the children who squander what our ancestors built or will we become the strong men who make up for the mistakes of our fathers?

That's a good point. Although today's struggles aren't economic or political or material. They are social problems like loneliness, broken homes, depression, drugs, atheism, multiculturalism, etc.

The Greatest Generation fought WW2 and created the most prosperous era in human history. Their children, the Baby Boomers, began Western decline with the "sexual revolution", state atheism and the welfare state. Their children, Generation X, are probably the first generation born and raised in degeneracy.

The youngest generations are Milennials and Generation Z. They too have known nothing but degeneracy. Time will tell whether they will return to virtue and defeat these hard times, or whether their weak degeneracy will give way to times even more difficult than these.

[Goodspeed]

Although today's struggles aren't economic or political or material.

[zoom]

The issue may be the financial system and all good shit, but the difference is mainly indoctrination, I'd say.

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

Maybe , go from top to bottom, during hard times you turn to faith, prayers etc.. ie. hard times create religious men.
Now these men overcome hardships and usher in era of prosperity so religious men create good times.
Now during good times there are freeloaders and they will just be the opposition for sake of it or just like hey I don't like this. so good times create irreligious men.
Now these men are hell bent on destroying the system ex. terrorists. so irreligious ppl create hard times... idk maybe he meant something like this

So for example the inquisition, witch-hunt, creation of ISIS were/are all good times since they were pursued by very religious people?

Nope, they were the result of good times created by religious people, meaning ISIS is irreligious, meaning good times create irreligious people. Here I would like to term ISIS as irreligious men.

Look at it this way
1) There was a good time, prosperity everywhere, but everyone wanted more of the same pie.
2) People grew greedy etc... lost the path on which prosperity was built ie. became irreligious.
3) these irreligious men created hard times that is creation of ISIS etc...

probably shouldnt look at religion in it's literal meaning here

lol go tell isis theyre not religious. in fact, go tell the people who hate isis theyre not religious XD

anyway, prove to me that religious people create good times. hint? you can't. Not just the vast majority, but pretty much everyone has been religious in history for as long as we know it, up to pretty much the 15th century AD. So are you saying that the whole history up until that point has been the good times, and since then we're having the bad times?

Nope,
firstly I said in the post don't take the word religious literally.
I claim to be the best aoe 3 player, does that really make me? No similarly isis claiming to be religious doesn't make them religious. The religion they claim are following does not teach rape of women, killing of innocent children, sending children strapped with suicide bombs in market etc.. heck none of the religion preaches war.
Its basically matter of perspective... if you look from western world's or specifically america's perspective, after gaining independence from world's superpower of the time, surviving a civil war, 2 world wars, recessions, internal resistance, winning cold war etc, after so much efforts their vision of a prosperous and peaceful world was finally coming true... and was just shaken by isis al-Qaeda etc... Here isis etc are just the spoiled brats looking to uproot the system, that is what makes them irreligious in eyes of america and its not the faith they follow. like i said dont take the work religion literally here

then its just a pointless statement. lejend did mean it literally, and that's what i asked about.

also like gendarme said, its not up to you to claim if someone is religious or not. it's up to them. if they truly believe in god and their religious beliefs, that makes them religious. you can have a discussion about whether or not ISIS are true muslims, but you can't really have a debate about whether they are a religious organisation in general. There are undoubtedly people there who only claim to be religious so they don't get killed, or so they can kill murder and rape with impunity, but thats something else.

What you are saying is probably true but you are missing the point altogether here, there's no universal religion here, there's no universal truth here. Earth rotates around sun is something no man, woman, regardless of religion, race, color, country etc can change. You go all over the world this thing remains constant. Religion is not like that, it differs from person to person., it's relative. I said that already in the post. Point is OP specifically mentions western world, it's not a question of weather ISIS is religious or not, it's what in context of western world? And clearly that makes ISIS irreligious in this case...

[princeofcarthage]

Nope,
firstly I said in the post don't take the word religious literally.
I claim to be the best aoe 3 player, does that really make me? No similarly isis claiming to be religious doesn't make them religious. The religion they claim are following does not teach rape of women, killing of innocent children, sending children strapped with suicide bombs in market etc.. heck none of the religion preaches war.

I am pretty sure every sentence here was made in some context at the time, but now people just take the word for it without understanding story behind it. When Muhammad said it was okay to kill disbelievers, it was at a a time when pagans were killing Muslims mercilessly and the treaties were violated. He further states fighting is only allowed if it's in self defense and against those actively fighting you. It also states if the fighting enemy gives up arms and inclines towards peace you are suppose to stop fighting. If what you say was the case every Muslim would have fought every non-Muslim throughout the history and either Muslims or no Muslims would have existed. It's just so easy to google few pictures on internet and hey look I know religion and then take up arms in its place without even knowing what it means.

ISIS is not the real threat, they can be killed with bullets, but blatant spread of misinformation and lack of knowledge are, cuz they turn into an idea and idea can not be killed with bullets and passes on even from dead.

There's probably some 14 year old brainwashed kid out their who is reading what you have posted and getting ready to strap a suicide vest to his chest and blow up a a market in Pakistan under name of religion.

[lemmings121]

Why do people bring up the bible when we're talking about ISIS? One book having dumb passages doesn't make the other less stupid.
Also what is the "right way" to read it? Especially passages like sura 2 verse 223?

The part about the bible was aimed to lejend, who is obviouslly refering to his book to say that hes right, because his book is always right.
About the right way of reading it.. its the same as any holy text, it doest matter, followers or 'haters' will chose to understand and interpret those texts however it fits their beliefs, and will use it to justify their actions.

If you want my personal opinion on those texts highlighted by your posts... is just bullshit that was relevant to rulers at the time to keep control to an old society via "fear of the supernatural". (what? arent you afraid of jail? arent willing to go to war for gold? I need to come up with a better punishment and reward system, and make sure people believe it....)

[lejend]

-

[jesus3]

so thats what a bible troll is capable of doing to forums, field work done. Now we know, great. bye.

sadly won't be as easy, will it

[lemmings121]

so thats what a bible troll is capable of doing to forums, field work done. Now we know, great. bye.

sadly won't be as easy, will it

I believe in the true one, the only one: JESUS3.

[lemmings121]

“The Party cannot be neutral towards religion... because it stands for science, whereas... all religion is the antithesis of science.” - Stalin

dam, this stalin guy has some good quotes. I like him.

[Gichtenlord]

Such inspirational quotes! Thanks lejend!