Spanking

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Right, should be legal
9
14%
Right, should be illegal
2
3%
Wrong, should be legal
12
18%
Wrong, should be illegal
14
21%
Garja should be spanked
29
44%
 
Total votes: 66

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United States of America Amsel_
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Re: Spanking

Post by Amsel_ »

@Kaiserklein This "I just think spanking is not a good kind of punishment." is really the only part I'm interested in. Why don't we talk about this instead of parenting 101?
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Spanking

Post by gibson »

How could a parent think that physically harming their child could be a good thing? Punishment can by physical, like Jerom said, maybe even a little painful, but it shouldn't be with the primary intention of causing pain.
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Re: Spanking

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well yeah, like gibson said I just don't understand why you would do that, instead of some other kind of punishment that would be softer and more educational
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Re: Spanking

Post by HUMMAN »

Not read much but gonna say:
Sometimes shouting at a kid worse than spanking in terms of physcological affect. Spanking is overrated because people dont know how child pysco develops, there are tons of common accepted behaviors which fucks up a kid's mind. Emotinally needy mother, father-mother relationship can lead to childhood traumas. In a healty enviroment, spanking under certain situations is not a big deal, it is a continuation of communication. However, because of child abuses and child beating physical contact is exagarated and became a taboo, which is probably good for society because people cant understand child physce so better to create taboo's, if it was not created beating would be more common.

Being radical against common human behaviors is not wise. They are basic personal communications affects without thinking, which is most affective way of communicating. To teach a kid, behavior + body language is everything.

To give some anologies ,
it is a crime to rape a girl, but most girls love dominance in sex, some even fantasize rape.

It is rude to say something bad to people, but depending on how you say it, it is often sincere and a positive communication.

It is wrong to fight, yet most people love fights; MMA's, box shows, cartoons, animes, films physical violence is adored by people. A strong guy would like to beat other people if there was not a social punishment.

It is wrong to restrict one's freedom, but most people are insecure and dont want to decide.

It is wrong to spank a child, but sometimes children may want to see if their parents are strong enough to protect them or determine their limits with extreme behaviors.

Physical superiority can not be ignored, it is in our everyday life. If you try to avoid it in the first fight your kid encounters he may not defend himself because you did not responded him physically when he was hitting you.
I believe encountering spanking 3-4 times in a childhood is enough because mostly you can teach your kid effectively without spanking. But doing it common is a wrong message and would lose its effectiveness. Still, a boy must learn physical power concept just like how animals play with each other. I wrote this for male children mostly.
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France benj89
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Re: Spanking

Post by benj89 »

gibson wrote:How could a parent think that physically harming their child could be a good thing? Punishment can by physical, like Jerom said, maybe even a little painful, but it shouldn't be with the primary intention of causing pain.

have you ever considered that life can be complex, parent(s) don't always have time for parenting and resort to quick short term fix rather than long term ones, even though it doesn't agree with what the literature says? If one day you take a beating for a mistake you did, trust me you'll think twice next time you consider doing it
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Australia WhatUNeed
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Re: Spanking

Post by WhatUNeed »

Pretty much just cutting off the internet and electronics will cause a child to change his ways really fast. Imagine a world where a 5 year old can't play COD and say "DIE U DUMB BITCH I FUCKED UR MOM LAST NIGHT SHE A WHORE" ... not being able to do that works better than spanking
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Re: Spanking

Post by Radix_Lecti »

As the or a person with experience with autistic and also aggressive children I'm just going to stop trying to be the sound of reason and scientific fact here. Beat your children and feel happy about your masculinity, at nights when you go to sleep or in your final hours it will come back and haunt you.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Spanking

  • Quote

Post by gibson »

benj89 wrote:
gibson wrote:How could a parent think that physically harming their child could be a good thing? Punishment can by physical, like Jerom said, maybe even a little painful, but it shouldn't be with the primary intention of causing pain.

have you ever considered that life can be complex, parent(s) don't always have time for parenting and resort to quick short term fix rather than long term ones, even though it doesn't agree with what the literature says? If one day you take a beating for a mistake you did, trust me you'll think twice next time you consider doing it
Just because something works doesn't make it a good or right thing to do. We could fix a lot of problems in this country with forced Euthanasia, but we don't. I guess it depends on where your priorities as a parent are. If you're willing to risk your kid losing trust in you and potentially having physiological issues in the future to keep them from taking cookies, go for it.
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Re: Spanking

Post by momuuu »

I find it weird that in this discussion it is somehow assumed by people that spanking by definition cannot be an effective tool in teaching a kid a lesson.
France benj89
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Re: Spanking

Post by benj89 »

gibson wrote:
benj89 wrote:
gibson wrote:How could a parent think that physically harming their child could be a good thing? Punishment can by physical, like Jerom said, maybe even a little painful, but it shouldn't be with the primary intention of causing pain.

have you ever considered that life can be complex, parent(s) don't always have time for parenting and resort to quick short term fix rather than long term ones, even though it doesn't agree with what the literature says? If one day you take a beating for a mistake you did, trust me you'll think twice next time you consider doing it
Just because something works doesn't make it a good or right thing to do. We could fix a lot of problems in this country with forced Euthanasia, but we don't. I guess it depends on where your priorities as a parent are. If you're willing to risk your kid losing trust in you and potentially having physiological issues in the future to keep them from taking cookies, go for it.

Get out of your idealistic world and stop comparing a familial structure to a country, the earlier the better or reality checks are going to be tough. Family issues can get very complicated as many people here probably know and difficult to handle for parents. Think single mom working two jobs who has two undisciplined boys with no father figure that drive her crazy, go tell her that she should see long term and not resort to short term fix while trying to not get her kids taken away because they cause trouble at school. That's just one scenario among many and I'm not saying she'd be right, but I can see why she'd use physical punishments.
Real life is different from an internet forum or news articles saying beating your kids is wrong in 2018
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Spanking

Post by gibson »

lol get off your high fucking horse acting like you know so much more about the world then everybody else, the earlier the better or reality checks are going to be tough. Physically harming your child is at best case lazy parenting. Think about every other situation where people physically harm others and you'll find that none of them have to do with harming those you love. Harming those who you love can break trust and build resentment.
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user0 »

benj89 wrote:
gibson wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Just because something works doesn't make it a good or right thing to do. We could fix a lot of problems in this country with forced Euthanasia, but we don't. I guess it depends on where your priorities as a parent are. If you're willing to risk your kid losing trust in you and potentially having physiological issues in the future to keep them from taking cookies, go for it.

Get out of your idealistic world and stop comparing a familial structure to a country, the earlier the better or reality checks are going to be tough. Family issues can get very complicated as many people here probably know and difficult to handle for parents. Think single mom working two jobs who has two undisciplined boys with no father figure that drive her crazy, go tell her that she should see long term and not resort to short term fix while trying to not get her kids taken away because they cause trouble at school. That's just one scenario among many and I'm not saying she'd be right, but I can see why she'd use physical punishments.
Real life is different from an internet forum or news articles saying beating your kids is wrong in 2018


your point being what? Just because she believes she has no other or better or even more available options than a beating, doesn't mean that it is in any way superior.

I'm quite sure that 99% of the people who are advocating even occasional use of corporeal punishment are people who have received when they were children. People tend to perpetuate the upbringing they have received.
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user0 »

momuuu wrote:I find it weird that in this discussion it is somehow assumed by people that spanking by definition cannot be an effective tool in teaching a kid a lesson.


sure, there are multiple roads to rome. beating your kid into fearful submission may achieve submission, but you will produce a much more valuable member of society when you get a kid to listen to you because they want to listen to you, not because they are afraid of the consequences when they don't.

If you look at pretty much all the great and celebrated leaders in history, they were loved by their men, those who weren't usually ended up with daggers in their backs.

I wonder if those who say it's ok to beat their children would also think its ok to beat their wives. Perhaps that should be our next thread?
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user0 »

Garja wrote:I think you're just too paranoid of simple spanking. 99% of kids on earth get spanked.


so? :roll:

prior in history a great majority of women got raped or sexually abused or harrassed. Are you just too paranoid of a simple sexual misconduct when you are against that?!

Garja logic rofl...
France benj89
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Re: Spanking

Post by benj89 »

umeu wrote:
benj89 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Get out of your idealistic world and stop comparing a familial structure to a country, the earlier the better or reality checks are going to be tough. Family issues can get very complicated as many people here probably know and difficult to handle for parents. Think single mom working two jobs who has two undisciplined boys with no father figure that drive her crazy, go tell her that she should see long term and not resort to short term fix while trying to not get her kids taken away because they cause trouble at school. That's just one scenario among many and I'm not saying she'd be right, but I can see why she'd use physical punishments.
Real life is different from an internet forum or news articles saying beating your kids is wrong in 2018


your point being what? Just because she believes she has no other or better or even more available options than a beating, doesn't mean that it is in any way superior.

I'm quite sure that 99% of the people who are advocating even occasional use of corporeal punishment are people who have received when they were children. People tend to perpetuate the upbringing they have received.

I don't know about that 99% but I'm sure there is a strong correlation.
I'm not saying it's superior (did I?), I'm saying naive gibson doesn't understand that it's reality and comes up with sentences like "how could a parent think physically harming their child could be a good thing". In case you missed it, the point is that yes, life can be such that you can think it's good to physically harm your child using physical punishments, and it doesn't make these parents evils or mentally deficient individuals
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
France benj89
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Re: Spanking

Post by benj89 »

gibson wrote:lol get off your high fucking horse acting like you know so much more about the world then everybody else, the earlier the better or reality checks are going to be tough. Physically harming your child is at best case lazy parenting. Think about every other situation where people physically harm others and you'll find that none of them have to do with harming those you love. Harming those who you love can break trust and build resentment.

Being on my high horse is me politely telling you that you're being retarded, it literally feels like talking to a young teenager. My point wasn't a theoretical one which is rather useless here since as previously mentioned, beating your kids is most likely not the best way to instill good values, build trust and all that but rather a practical one trying to answer your interrogations. Proper parenting definitely seems like a tough and underrated job
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
No Flag deleted_user0
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user0 »

benj89 wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


your point being what? Just because she believes she has no other or better or even more available options than a beating, doesn't mean that it is in any way superior.

I'm quite sure that 99% of the people who are advocating even occasional use of corporeal punishment are people who have received when they were children. People tend to perpetuate the upbringing they have received.

I don't know about that 99% but I'm sure there is a strong correlation.
I'm not saying it's superior (did I?), I'm saying naive gibson doesn't understand that it's reality and comes up with sentences like "how could a parent think physically harming their child could be a good thing". In case you missed it, the point is that yes, life can be such that you can think it's good to physically harm your child using physical punishments, and it doesn't make these parents evils or mentally deficient individuals


Sure, if that's your point, I didn't that from what you said, and I don't think many would disagree with it. I don't think that the people here who are saying spanking shouldn't be used are saying that the people who do it are evil and that we should hunt them down with burning pitchforks.

I'm aware that some people might think it's good, or what I think is more often the case, they don't think it's good, but feel like they don't know what else to do, only that they need to do something. That's why it's important that education and awareness is raised about these topics, so people know that there are other ways and learn how to apply them even in stressful or difficult situations. And in cases where the parent can't handle the situation alone, that help is provided. The problem to be honest is also in large with the atomic family structure in the west. There is a saying that it takes a village to raise a child, which imo hits deep at the root of the problem in european countries where 2 people, or in some cases even just 1 person are expected to raise one or often even multiple children. it's a miracle that it doesn't go wrong more often than it does.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Spanking

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Post by gibson »

@benj89 yea and when I talk to you I feel like I'm talking to someone who's gotten all their "real life experiences" from big budget hollywood movies. My question was genuine to people who have been advocating corporal punishment towards children, why do you think physically harming a child is a good thing. I have never once said that that parents who use corporal punishment towards children are evil or mentally deficient individuals, however I would say that many of them are either lazy or uneducated. Of course it's not just black and white, I don't need your stupid little anecdotes to know that, but it also doesn't take a genius to realize that physical harm towards children is not the ideal form of punishment, which is what this thread is about.
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user »

I spanked my Barbie dolls and they turned out fine.
France benj89
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Re: Spanking

Post by benj89 »

umeu wrote:I'm aware that some people might think it's good, or what I think is more often the case, they don't think it's good, but feel like they don't know what else to do, only that they need to do something. That's why it's important that education and awareness is raised about these topics, so people know that there are other ways and learn how to apply them even in stressful or difficult situations. And in cases where the parent can't handle the situation alone, that help is provided. The problem to be honest is also in large with the atomic family structure in the west. There is a saying that it takes a village to raise a child, which imo hits deep at the root of the problem in european countries where 2 people, or in some cases even just 1 person are expected to raise one or often even multiple children. it's a miracle that it doesn't go wrong more often than it does.

totally agree and I'm concerned that the single parent phenomenon will only get worse. One issue is that "help", at least in France, potentially means your kids being taken away by social services which is the last thing a single parent would want.
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
No Flag deleted_user
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user »

Well except Ken had lasting emotional trauma and threw himself off the roof without GI Joe's parachute.
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Re: Spanking

Post by lejend »

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Re: Spanking

Post by lejend »

-
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Re: Spanking

Post by deleted_user »

lejend wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I spanked my Barbie dolls and they turned out fine.


I spanked it to my Barbie dolls and now their bodies are all melted and stuff.

You're only supposed to burn the hair of your effigies.
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Re: Spanking

Post by momuuu »

umeu wrote:
momuuu wrote:I find it weird that in this discussion it is somehow assumed by people that spanking by definition cannot be an effective tool in teaching a kid a lesson.


sure, there are multiple roads to rome. beating your kid into fearful submission may achieve submission, but you will produce a much more valuable member of society when you get a kid to listen to you because they want to listen to you, not because they are afraid of the consequences when they don't.

If you look at pretty much all the great and celebrated leaders in history, they were loved by their men, those who weren't usually ended up with daggers in their backs.

I wonder if those who say it's ok to beat their children would also think its ok to beat their wives. Perhaps that should be our next thread?

Why are you misrepresenting my argument so badly? When one states that spanking might be an effective tool in parenting, he clearly doesnt mean that parents should 'beat their kids into faithful submission'.

You then proceed to argue that you will create a 'better member of society' if you dont scare a kid into listening to you. While again that is a misrepresentation of what spanking is, you also provide very pityful evidence. There is very little equivalance between leaders of the world and parents, and at the very least your anecdotal evidence proves nothing.

And then in the last paragraph you really disappoint me. Again, you are falsely acting as if spanking is equal to pure purposeless physical violence. This is why I havent engaged much in this discussion, people fail to even realize that spanking can be used to teach a kid something. If you try to shape behaviour, punishment and reward can both be used effectively. Spanking can be used as a strong punishment to make very clear that some behaviour is absolytely unacceptable. That doesnt mean spanking is always used because parents have no authority over their kids, and that they thus try to 'beat their kid into submission'.

I am not even necessarily saying that spanking should be accepted, just that spanking can be an effective parenting tool without terrible consequences for the kid. Given that I was spanked to change my behaviour for the better, we must conclude that the former statement should be considered a fact. You can discuss if it can be avoided or if there are always better alternatives, but then first you need to accept the possibility that spanking has a positive effect on a kid.

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