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[Radix_Lecti]

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[Radix_Lecti]

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[yemshi]

A few questions:
How old is the class?
Would she really have failed without Frans?
What's the backstory of her and Frans? Like did she allow this seat for first time? How long has she been in class?

[momuuu]

I think the appropriate respons is something along the lines of
- threatening to send him out of the class if he does not move. If he doesn't want to listen, he should be expelled.
- if he doesn't listen to that either, you let him sit and be quiet, but make abundantly clear that there will be severe consequences. I'd say something like "if you choose not to leave, the consequences are yours".
- if he then does not listen, I think the school should have him suspended or punished.
- if he then does not listen, he has beaten the system.

I do not think persisting in your effort to move him to the different seat is at all the right move. You validate his attempt to undermine your authority while you disrupt your class.

[yemshi]

Hmm. One situation I am afraid of too.
What I would do is to loudly and calmy anyalze his attitude and behaviour à la "If I were in your position I would ask myself etc.." (max 1 min or so) and then simply accept it and try my best to focus on the rest of the class. Or just let the "good ones" move. Dunno the class here. Of course the lowest possible grade for that lesson. That's I guess all one can do.
I think a key would be to stay cool here. I think I could do that.
Problems: If the whole class pulls pranks you are riperino. The lesson will remain a mess anyway.

[Radix_Lecti]

Wow, we could actually have a teacher's thread seeing that with you there's 5 of us ! WickedCossack ,lordraphael, yemshi, agrondergermane, radix maybe 6?

[momuuu]

Wow, we could actually have a teacher's thread seeing that with you there's 5 of us !

I'm not a teacher actually, but both my parents were teachers and have done teaching of teachers, so over many dinner's I've heard many stories including of course this hypothetical scenario.

Also, I have so far counted 4 people, not 5??

[momuuu]

Hmm. One situation I am afraid of too.
What I would do is to loudly and calmy anyalze his attitude and behaviour à la "If I were in your position I would ask myself etc.." (max 1 min or so) and then simply accept it and try my best to focus on the rest of the class. Or just let the "good ones" move. Dunno the class here. Of course the lowest possible grade for that lesson. That's I guess all one can do.
I think a key would be to stay cool here. I think I could do that.
Problems: If the whole class pulls pranks you are riperino. The lesson will remain a mess anyway.

I asked my dad about this ones. He had some group of students pull some sort of prank where they would be making weird sounds. He then pointed at the guy who he had determined as the natural leader, told him to stop as he was fairly certain it was him anyways. He said he'd sent him out if he did it again, and then said that if it wasn't him then he should just tell his friends to stop as he was the natural leader. Supposedly worked wonders.

Also, he once told a story where they put a pushpin on his chair in one of his first classes. He sat down and obviously felt it, but decided to simply not give a flincht. Proceeded to sit on that chair for quite a while, the class didn't try to pull many pranks afterwards haha.

[BrookG]

I am not very familiar with classes, because I've only given private lessons and tutoring. In this case, I feel the teacher didnt say clearly that Frans would have consequences, and then didnt proceed in punishing the behaviour.
EDIT: The difficulty is that the child already knows that it can get away with it, based on their established relationship. There might be a need to deal with him privately to sort it out, not sure though if the latter would be effective.

[yemshi]

Don't think so. He very well knew what he would do and a chat doesnt change his opinion.

[agrondergermane]

Wow, we could actually have a teacher's thread seeing that with you there's 5 of us ! WickedCossack ,lordraphael, yemshi, agrondergermane, radix maybe 6?

im not a real teacher, im mainly student. i just work for the BuT Lernförderung. it helps kids to reach the goals in school. but similar to jerom, many of my family members are teachers.

[deleted_user]

Thank you for teaching and doing a good job at it. My sister is a teacher too in a low income, impoverished area with lots of problem children. It's a tireless occupation with little recognition but you're all making impacts on the lives of the next generation, and that's pretty neat.

[yemshi]

Wow, we could actually have a teacher's thread seeing that with you there's 5 of us ! WickedCossack ,lordraphael, yemshi, agrondergermane, radix maybe 6?

I'm not a teacher (yet). Ffs im not even 17 :O.

[Radix_Lecti]

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[deleted_user0]

To get started I can give you this casus. Remember this is a gymnasium class !

Right now I'm in week 1 of coaching a young student who can't 'control' student X, let's call him Frans. Last assessment she failed because Frans was doing nothing and refused to move to another place in the class room. She went to him and said: ''I gave u a chance so you could show that you could sit here next to your friends but you aren't doing anything and I think you should sit there.

She pointed. He didn't move. She kept on insisting but he didn't budge.
When the class teacher told the student 'come on Frans dont be such a prick' he very slowly packed his stuff and moved. This took 8 min. from the class teaching time. She failed the government assessment and her study/ costs got prolonged with 6 months.

How old is the class? 3rd form/grade 14-15 yrs.
Would she really have failed without Frans? probably not this was his way of getting back at her i think
What's the backstory of her and Frans? Frans doesn't accept her as a teacher and usually does nothing, also in my class. She's been in training since October 2017. The class pulls pranks on her like playing loud music or food/drinks. They pack up and leave class while she still talks about homework. @yemshi
The colleague had tears in her eyes when she talked about 'Frans'.

What could /should she have done differently?

I think the casus isn't elaborate enough to really say what she could've/should've done differently. For example, I don't even know what the reasons were that led to her failing the assessment

[momuuu]

To get started I can give you this casus. Remember this is a gymnasium class !

Right now I'm in week 1 of coaching a young student who can't 'control' student X, let's call him Frans. Last assessment she failed because Frans was doing nothing and refused to move to another place in the class room. She went to him and said: ''I gave u a chance so you could show that you could sit here next to your friends but you aren't doing anything and I think you should sit there.

She pointed. He didn't move. She kept on insisting but he didn't budge.
When the class teacher told the student 'come on Frans dont be such a prick' he very slowly packed his stuff and moved. This took 8 min. from the class teaching time. She failed the government assessment and her study/ costs got prolonged with 6 months.

How old is the class? 3rd form/grade 14-15 yrs.
Would she really have failed without Frans? probably not this was his way of getting back at her i think
What's the backstory of her and Frans? Frans doesn't accept her as a teacher and usually does nothing, also in my class. She's been in training since October 2017. The class pulls pranks on her like playing loud music or food/drinks. They pack up and leave class while she still talks about homework. @yemshi
The colleague had tears in her eyes when she talked about 'Frans'.

What could /should she have done differently?

I think the casus isn't elaborate enough to really say what she could've/should've done differently. For example, I don't even know what the reasons were that led to her failing the assessment

Quite obviously because it took her over 8 minutes to get Frans to even move, right?

[deleted_user0]

To get started I can give you this casus. Remember this is a gymnasium class !

Right now I'm in week 1 of coaching a young student who can't 'control' student X, let's call him Frans. Last assessment she failed because Frans was doing nothing and refused to move to another place in the class room. She went to him and said: ''I gave u a chance so you could show that you could sit here next to your friends but you aren't doing anything and I think you should sit there.

She pointed. He didn't move. She kept on insisting but he didn't budge.
When the class teacher told the student 'come on Frans dont be such a prick' he very slowly packed his stuff and moved. This took 8 min. from the class teaching time. She failed the government assessment and her study/ costs got prolonged with 6 months.

How old is the class? 3rd form/grade 14-15 yrs.
Would she really have failed without Frans? probably not this was his way of getting back at her i think
What's the backstory of her and Frans? Frans doesn't accept her as a teacher and usually does nothing, also in my class. She's been in training since October 2017. The class pulls pranks on her like playing loud music or food/drinks. They pack up and leave class while she still talks about homework. @yemshi
The colleague had tears in her eyes when she talked about 'Frans'.

What could /should she have done differently?

I think the casus isn't elaborate enough to really say what she could've/should've done differently. For example, I don't even know what the reasons were that led to her failing the assessment

Quite obviously because it took her over 8 minutes to get Frans to even move, right?

obviously that's part of it. But who knows if there is more? Also, what's the assessors opinion on how she dealt with the problem. Is it that he had to intervene, is that he thought she used a wrong technique, or that she used the right technique poorly, there are many ways something can go wrong... It seems to me that the problem was more that she wasted 8 minutes on him, rather than that she failed to get him to move. If he doesn't listen after 2 minutes, I'm inclined to say deal with the problem in his own time, not the class time. So I agree with you on that part.

i dont know how much authority she had to take measures, and what measures were at her disposal. i don't know how long she has been teaching this particular class (Although from some facts dropped elsewhere, it might be for a year?). I don't know if there are any special circumstances regarding frans that might require special handling.

[yemshi]

I guess it's a mixture of the 1. and 2. point frankly

[Radix_Lecti]

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[Radix_Lecti]

Are you considering a career as a teacher? @yemshi

[yemshi]

It's set in stone, yes.

[Radix_Lecti]

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[yemshi]

I don't understand a word :/

[Radix_Lecti]

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[yemshi]

I dislike your question here: Why should I face a grownup refugee with traumas differently than other students? I ought try my best to help but I can also only give the safety outside the classroom the student wants me to have.

And in the classroom I am responsible to not only teach my subject but also care for the wellbeing of my students. And should they be beaten with belts - what can I do in the immediate momentum?
If that requires me to cut jokes I would make or to furtherly increase effort then that is my job. If that me requires to focus on him that is more important than a simple lesson, right? So I do that. People can talk.

I really struggle with your question here though.