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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by momuuu »

This one is killing me
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

Jerom wrote:This one is killing me

Is it making you fall from more than 10 feet? :uglylol:
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by momuuu »

So Im not supposed to be using very cheeky knots right?
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

Jerom wrote:So Im not supposed to be using very cheeky knots right?

Umm the problem says you are a good knot maker.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Gendarme »

[spoiler=Solution to rope problem]Assuming your height is 0 and the rope is infinitely thin, you cut down the first rope completely (by hanging on the second rope), tie it around the second rope 49 ft above the floor. You then switch to hang on the first rope, cut 49 ft of the second rope, climb down to pick up the 49 ft long piece of rope from the floor and climb back up.

You hang on the 1ft of rope cemented to the ceiling, untie the knot and combine the two pieces of rope to form a 99 ft rope which you tie around the 1 ft rope with two equally long ends (49.5 ft). However, you tie the knot in such a way that only one of the ends will untie the knot by being pulled. Now, hang on the end that doesn't untie the knot, climb down 49.5 ft, switch to the other end and fall 0.5 ft. You now have a 99.5 ft rope to use to climb down the window and fall the last 0.5 ft.[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

[quote="Gendarme"][/quote]

Congrats! Can you put your solution in spoilers please? I have a different one, I will post it when I have access to a computer.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Googol »

Gendarme wrote:Assuming your height is 0 and the rope is infinitely thin, you cut down the first rope completely (by hanging on the second rope), tie it around the second rope 49 ft above the floor. You then switch to hang on the first rope, cut 49 ft of the second rope, climb down to pick up the 49 ft long piece of rope from the floor and climb back up.

You hang on the 1ft of rope cemented to the ceiling, untie the knot and combine the two pieces of rope to form a 99 ft rope which you tie around the 1 ft rope with two equally long ends (49.5 ft). However, you tie the knot in such a way that only one of the ends will untie the knot by being pulled. Now, hang on the end that doesn't untie the knot, climb down 49.5 ft, switch to the other end and fall 0.5 ft. You now have a 99.5 ft rope to use to climb down the window and fall the last 0.5 ft.


What's that ?
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by momuuu »

I was puzzling around with hanging a two ropes like that, with a small piece thats still attached to the ceiling. Something like you cut of one rope entirely, tie it at 1 ft from the ceiling of the second rope, you then make an incision on the second rope. Go down the first rope, and pull on the second rope which cant deal with your weight anymore, it falls up. The knot was done so that due to that part not being present anymore the knot unknots. That being said, I found the solution much less creative than I hoped it to be.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by momuuu »

ovi12 wrote:Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae

Cant they just all anonimously write it down and then shuffle the papers?
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

Jerom wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae

Cant they just all anonimously write it down and then shuffle the papers?

But then the one who reads them will be able to say "aha, so one person makes 50k" for example. The bottom sentences in the riddle disallows this.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by gh0st »

I got a cheeky approach, which wouldn't need assuming your height 0 or rope to be infinitely thin,
[spoiler=spoiler]You climb up one of the rope. Then when you get very near to the ceiling. Hold the rope with your left hand and use your right hand to grab the other 50 foot length of rope.
Put it in your left hand in such a way that your left hand is holding both ropes.
Now, with your right hand, use the knife to cut each rope halfway through its thickness simultaneously just above your left hand (So if each rope is 1-inch thick, you make a 0.5 inch cut in each one).
Even though each rope is half cut, neither one should break since each one is only supporting half of your weight now. Then grab one rope with your right hand, so that each hand is holding a rope.
Now climb down the rope. Grab one rope and start climbing until your feet is just above the ground. It will break since it is partially cut and cannot support your weight.Do the same with the other rope.
Now you have two almost 50 feet rope, tie them to make an almost 100 ft rope. Tie one end to the hook and get the hell out of that cursed room.

Also make sure you find the guy who left you in that room and hang him with the rope to the nearest tree or something, or just stab him with your knife if you dint forget the knife in that room.[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

gh0st wrote:I got a cheeky approach, which wouldn't need assuming your height 0 or rope to be infinitely thin,
[spoiler=spoiler]You climb up one of the rope. Then when you get very near to the ceiling. Hold the rope with your left hand and use your right hand to grab the other 50 foot length of rope.
Put it in your left hand in such a way that your left hand is holding both ropes.
Now, with your right hand, use the knife to cut each rope halfway through its thickness simultaneously just above your left hand (So if each rope is 1-inch thick, you make a 0.5 inch cut in each one).
Even though each rope is half cut, neither one should break since each one is only supporting half of your weight now. Then grab one rope with your right hand, so that each hand is holding a rope.
Now climb down the rope. Grab one rope and start climbing until your feet is just above the ground. It will break since it is partially cut and cannot support your weight.Do the same with the other rope.
Now you have two almost 50 feet rope, tie them to make an almost 100 ft rope. Tie one end to the hook and get the hell out of that cursed room.

Also make sure you find the guy who left you in that room and hang him with the rope to the nearest tree or something, or just stab him with your knife if you dint forget the knife in that room.[/spoiler]

This was my solution also, tho you can make it a little safer for yourself by doing a couple more things.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

ovi12 wrote:
gh0st wrote:I got a cheeky approach, which wouldn't need assuming your height 0 or rope to be infinitely thin,
[spoiler=spoiler]You climb up one of the rope. Then when you get very near to the ceiling. Hold the rope with your left hand and use your right hand to grab the other 50 foot length of rope.
Put it in your left hand in such a way that your left hand is holding both ropes.
Now, with your right hand, use the knife to cut each rope halfway through its thickness simultaneously just above your left hand (So if each rope is 1-inch thick, you make a 0.5 inch cut in each one).
Even though each rope is half cut, neither one should break since each one is only supporting half of your weight now. Then grab one rope with your right hand, so that each hand is holding a rope.
Now climb down the rope. Grab one rope and start climbing until your feet is just above the ground. It will break since it is partially cut and cannot support your weight.Do the same with the other rope.
Now you have two almost 50 feet rope, tie them to make an almost 100 ft rope. Tie one end to the hook and get the hell out of that cursed room.

Also make sure you find the guy who left you in that room and hang him with the rope to the nearest tree or something, or just stab him with your knife if you dint forget the knife in that room.[/spoiler]

This was my solution also, tho you can make it a little safer for yourself by doing a couple more things.


[spoiler=spoiler]i.e. You don't cut half the thickness of the rope, because maybe because of the propreties of the rope it will still break. You cut as little as possible from each rope. Then climb down holding on to both ropes. When you get to the bottom, jump up while holding on to one rope; this will create a force on tbe rope which is much greater than your weight. If the rope breaks, great. If not, clomb up and cut a little more...[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by gh0st »

ovi12 wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
gh0st wrote:I got a cheeky approach, which wouldn't need assuming your height 0 or rope to be infinitely thin,
[spoiler=spoiler]You climb up one of the rope. Then when you get very near to the ceiling. Hold the rope with your left hand and use your right hand to grab the other 50 foot length of rope.
Put it in your left hand in such a way that your left hand is holding both ropes.
Now, with your right hand, use the knife to cut each rope halfway through its thickness simultaneously just above your left hand (So if each rope is 1-inch thick, you make a 0.5 inch cut in each one).
Even though each rope is half cut, neither one should break since each one is only supporting half of your weight now. Then grab one rope with your right hand, so that each hand is holding a rope.
Now climb down the rope. Grab one rope and start climbing until your feet is just above the ground. It will break since it is partially cut and cannot support your weight.Do the same with the other rope.
Now you have two almost 50 feet rope, tie them to make an almost 100 ft rope. Tie one end to the hook and get the hell out of that cursed room.

Also make sure you find the guy who left you in that room and hang him with the rope to the nearest tree or something, or just stab him with your knife if you dint forget the knife in that room.[/spoiler]

This was my solution also, tho you can make it a little safer for yourself by doing a couple more things.


[spoiler=spoiler]i.e. You don't cut half the thickness of the rope, because maybe because of the propreties of the rope it will still break. You cut as little as possible from each rope. Then climb down holding on to both ropes. When you get to the bottom, jump up while holding on to one rope; this will create a force on tbe rope which is much greater than your weight. If the rope breaks, great. If not, clomb up and cut a little more...[/spoiler]

hmm, that's slightly better approach.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

gh0st wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes


[spoiler=spoiler]i.e. You don't cut half the thickness of the rope, because maybe because of the propreties of the rope it will still break. You cut as little as possible from each rope. Then climb down holding on to both ropes. When you get to the bottom, jump up while holding on to one rope; this will create a force on tbe rope which is much greater than your weight. If the rope breaks, great. If not, clomb up and cut a little more...[/spoiler]

hmm, that's slightly better approach.

Yeah but I think I like Gendarme's solution a little more, though both should work.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by gh0st »

ovi12 wrote:
gh0st wrote:
Show hidden quotes

hmm, that's slightly better approach.

Yeah but I think I like Gendarme's solution a little more, though both should work.

btw, if you assume height to be 0 (i.e. point mass), how do you even reach 2nd rope from 1st as they are 1 foot apart :mrgreen:
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

gh0st wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Yeah but I think I like Gendarme's solution a little more, though both should work.

btw, if you assume height to be 0 (i.e. point mass), how do you even reach 2nd rope from 1st as they are 1 foot apart :mrgreen:

Well I said you can assume you are 5-6 foot tall.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by HUMMAN »

If a prof knows avr he knows total given that he knows how many profs in room. If he knows total, he may achieve to conlucisions. So if the total salary is 500k he can say everyone is under 500k, so computing must be done by another character.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by HUMMAN »

So i have to think one doesnt know how many people are in the room.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

HUMMAN wrote:If a prof knows avr he knows total given that he knows how many profs in room. If he knows total, he may achieve to conlucisions. So if the total salary is 500k he can say everyone is under 500k, so computing must be done by another character.

[spoiler=spoiler]Aha well you solved it, the question asks "is it possible", so the answer is no[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by HUMMAN »

I will ask a good question tomorrow.
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by gamevideo113 »

ovi12 wrote:Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae


[spoiler=I think this is actually possible]Soo here's my guess. Every professor writes down a number relatively close to their salary on their paper (but not completely accurate), then they put all the papers in the middle and someone sums all the values up. Then the total can be adjusted if every professor tells how much different from reality the written number is.
Assuming i am a professor and my salary is 29k, i will write 30k, add it to all the other salaries and then tell that i added 1k to my real salary so 1k gets subtracted from the total. The other professors won't know that my salary is 29k as the initial paper is anonymous. If there is another professors who earns 27k and declares 29k then there would be two different cases. Who reads the papers would see 29k and 30k, he would know that one of the other professors added 1k and the other 2k but at this point he would not be able to tell if the real salaries are 29k (30-1) and 27k (29-2) or 28k (30-2) and 28k (29-1). Once the real total is calculated, it can be divided by the number of professors.[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Vinyanyérë »

ovi12 wrote:Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae


This is probably possible or impossible depending on how we define the words "any" and "fact", as well as the sample space of the professors' salaries. For example, if salaries are required to be strictly positive, then knowing the average salary x means that you know that no professor's salary can be larger than 2nx. I'm guessing that the intended solution is somewhere along the lines of:

[spoiler]The professors arrange themselves in a circle. One of them takes their salary, select some arbitrary number in secret, and adds it to their salary, then writes it down and passes their paper to the next professor. The next professor picks a secret number, then writes the sum of the number they received, their salary, and their secret number on their paper, then passes it down. This continues until the process reaches the first professor, who subtracts their secret number from the total, writes that number on the unused side of their paper, and passes the piece of paper down. Every professor in turn subtracts their secret number from the number they received until everyone's done so, at which point the last professor wrote down the total sum of their salaries.[/spoiler]
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Re: You sit on ESOC all day puzzling! You know nothing of hard life!

Post by Jaeger »

Vinyanenya wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Ok 1 more. I would type it up but I'm not at computer:

https://imgur.com/a/T94Ae


This is probably possible or impossible depending on how we define the words "any" and "fact", as well as the sample space of the professors' salaries. For example, if salaries are required to be strictly positive, then knowing the average salary x means that you know that no professor's salary can be larger than 2nx. I'm guessing that the intended solution is somewhere along the lines of:

[spoiler]The professors arrange themselves in a circle. One of them takes their salary, select some arbitrary number in secret, and adds it to their salary, then writes it down and passes their paper to the next professor. The next professor picks a secret number, then writes the sum of the number they received, their salary, and their secret number on their paper, then passes it down. This continues until the process reaches the first professor, who subtracts their secret number from the total, writes that number on the unused side of their paper, and passes the piece of paper down. Every professor in turn subtracts their secret number from the number they received until everyone's done so, at which point the last professor wrote down the total sum of their salaries.[/spoiler]


My solution had the same idea, but now that I read Humman's answer I think he is the correct one. There are two reasons:

1) Since whatever the method they would all know the average at the end, so they would know no professor makes more than the average * n. This contradicts the last sentence in the riddle. But the last sentence in the riddle explicitly forbids them knowing such an information. This problem is from a very good math book, and this is too a contradiction for the author to not have caught (sadly I didn't catch it).

2) Being a math book, it is proof-oriented. The idea of getting them in a circle and plus minus a random number is good, but I have no idea how you would go about proving that they cannot derive any information whatsoever (I'd actually be very interested if you knew how) from performing this proccess. Therefore I think Humann's answer is correct, because it is a proof that it's impossible.
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