This makes me really sad

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United States of America jap_jon
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by jap_jon »

deleted_user wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Discrimination (assuming we're going with the definition of "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another") of men and women exists, and is not being denied by anyone here. I am arguing that discrimination is not necessarily bad.


Wow that is one misconstrued definition!


I think this is the most straightforward usage of "discrimination." I'd be willing to bet that the definition that you refer to was added to the dictionary more recently or was at least was less commonly used one hundred years ago.

Also, I don't think you used the word "misconstrue" here correctly.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by deleted_user »

jap_jon wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Discrimination (assuming we're going with the definition of "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another") of men and women exists, and is not being denied by anyone here. I am arguing that discrimination is not necessarily bad.


Wow that is one misconstrued definition!


I think this is the most straightforward usage of "discrimination." I'd be willing to bet that the definition that you refer to was added to the dictionary more recently or was at least was less commonly used one hundred years ago.

Also, I don't think you used the word "misconstrue" here correctly.

Yep -- I failed to recognize that "discrimination" has an alternate meaning so I thought he misconstrued the definition I was most familiar with to better suit his argument.

I was shocked to see this definition in use in a context which I felt so strongly the more relevant definition was: "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." I was really stuck in this headspace and reacted too harsh and mistakenly. I'm glad Gendarme brought up the matter of which definition is in use and thanks for correcting me.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Snuden wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I interpret it as you having predetermined behavioral expectations of women to a certain degree. Am I incorrect? "Implied" would really be an understatement. I am pointing out predermined expectations of that degree have historically led to a gross oppression of one gender (and many races -- in other matters). I am arguing predetermined behavioral expectations of that degree should no longer be a thing and for the will of the indivual to purely and utterly and freely exist. Can this stance be so easily criticized?

I cannot express it more simply than this. As I said earlier -- I have no disallusions of swaying anyone's view. I'm providing a voice many people are probably relieved to read.

You are correct in assuming that I like women to act, dress, etc... in a certain way (if I am to consider them a partner or lover)
But that does not mean that I belittle women, who dress or act differently - they are just not for me.

Women can be shipbuilders for all I care, I just find it unappealing to a great extent.

And yes, I am also against the idea that women HAVE TO be equal to men in some matters, just like men can't be equal to women in other matters. I am getting tired of all this "we are all equal" nonsense, facts are that we are not.

Please note that I don't question women's intellect at all here (I am saving that for another thread)


The problem is that you're being unclear by saying things like "man" and "woman," when in reality gender is a spectrum.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by Gendarme »

deleted_user wrote:If by applying the physiological differences of the genders one obstructs the individual's will (i.e. expectations of how they should behave) -- that is unjust.

[...]

I will restate my position: that the manifest of the personal will should be always the most free, barring immoral complications.

Applying the differences? I do not know what that is supposed to mean. In any case, I completely support freedom of the highest degree with the exception of immoralities. You seem to be mistaking my assessment of the differences between men and women or my personal preference of certain types of people for an intention to forcefully impose restrictions upon people.

deleted_user wrote:This is everything Snuden has expressed and admitted to in so far.
No. Snuden has admitted to no such thing. What he expressed was his preferences (or requirements) which he is entitled to as he is not public property; this is not an infringement on the rights of others.

deleted_user wrote:His defense is that, "but it is just my personal preference." Which is true, it is his personal preference. I am arguing his sense of personal preference stems from a damaging, overarching stereotype which is the same damaging, overarching stereotype which has historically oppressed women, meaning, their lack of basic rights -- that is, the idea that women are womanly beings more so than they are thinking, feeling beings. That they should fit into a predetermined role rather than in whichever role they wish to fil themselves! It's a very dangerous mindset.
You are not really arguing, but groundlessly making statements about his preferences as if they are facts. "women are womanly beings more so than they are thinking, feeling beings" is just a word salad. If you have no concrete criticism, perhaps you should stop adhering to your preconception that everyone who has a preference that seems extreme to you is a bigot. People with preferences perceived as extreme by you are thinking, feelings beings more so than they are bigoted beings.

deleted_user wrote:Today this prejudice exists in more "nuanced" areas such as workplace opportunities, positions of power, rape and sexual abuse, etc. Note, these issues affect all genders but again, historically, plainly, and clearly, they affect women more. Thus we see the majority of activism on the woman's behalf.
Women are the primary victims of rape and sexual abuse for obvious biological reasons. This is not exclusive to humans, and certainly not due to some systematic societal oppression of women. Elaborate more on workplace opportunities and positions of power, please.

deleted_user wrote:To be frank you have yet to outline a belief
I have expressed my beliefs in this very thread, in fact. I even suggested the creation of a new thread to discuss the matter in depth, but seeing as almost everyone preferred to cry "Sexism!" instead of engaging in a factual discussion I realised that the effort would be wasted. This just happens to be a one-year-old thread which you may have missed. What exactly do you want me to outline?
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by QueenOfdestiny »

HUMAN IS HUMAN DOESNT MATTER IF: BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW, EUROPEAN, AMERICAN, AFRICAN, RUSSIAN OR W/E

ESPECIALLY WOMEN AND MEN!
EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE HOW THEY WANT AND LIKE

[spoiler=spoiler]but at the same time they should respect others the same way how they wants to be respected...
LIVE AND LET LIVE[/spoiler]
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by milku3459 »

queenofdestiny wrote:HUMAN IS HUMAN DOESNT MATTER IF: BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW, EUROPEAN, AMERICAN, AFRICAN, RUSSIAN OR W/E

ESPECIALLY WOMEN AND MEN!
EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE HOW THEY WANT AND LIKE

[spoiler=spoiler]but at the same time they should respect others the same way how they wants to be respected...
LIVE AND LET LIVE[/spoiler]


So does that mean I don't have to bake cakes if I don't want to :hmm:
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by Jam »

You've got to do the cooking by the book.

The good book.

The recipies have always worked so why should we change them?

Don't you like cake? I do.

I get so upset when people say they don't like cake. Everybody likes my cakes so they must be lying. My cakes make me and all my friends feel good, so they don't want us to feel good. I feel so proud when people tell me they like my cakes, so the dirty liar cake haters want me to feel small. Why do they want to hurt me?

People who don't like cakes should be publicly executed.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by evilcheadar »

Jam wrote:You've got to do the cooking by the book.

The good book.

The recipies have always worked so why should we change them?

Don't you like cake? I do.

I get so upset when people say they don't like cake. Everybody likes my cakes so they must be lying. My cakes make me and all my friends feel good, so they don't want us to feel good. I feel so proud when people tell me they like my cakes, so the dirty liar cake haters want me to feel small. Why do they want to hurt me?

People who don't like cakes should be publicly executed.

People who dont like seafood should be flayed with crab legs.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by fightinfrenchman »

evilcheadar wrote:
Jam wrote:You've got to do the cooking by the book.

The good book.

The recipies have always worked so why should we change them?

Don't you like cake? I do.

I get so upset when people say they don't like cake. Everybody likes my cakes so they must be lying. My cakes make me and all my friends feel good, so they don't want us to feel good. I feel so proud when people tell me they like my cakes, so the dirty liar cake haters want me to feel small. Why do they want to hurt me?

People who don't like cakes should be publicly executed.

People who dont like seafood should be flayed with crab legs.


Even if they're allergic, that's no excuse
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by gibson »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Snuden wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I interpret it as you having predetermined behavioral expectations of women to a certain degree. Am I incorrect? "Implied" would really be an understatement. I am pointing out predermined expectations of that degree have historically led to a gross oppression of one gender (and many races -- in other matters). I am arguing predetermined behavioral expectations of that degree should no longer be a thing and for the will of the indivual to purely and utterly and freely exist. Can this stance be so easily criticized?

I cannot express it more simply than this. As I said earlier -- I have no disallusions of swaying anyone's view. I'm providing a voice many people are probably relieved to read.

You are correct in assuming that I like women to act, dress, etc... in a certain way (if I am to consider them a partner or lover)
But that does not mean that I belittle women, who dress or act differently - they are just not for me.

Women can be shipbuilders for all I care, I just find it unappealing to a great extent.

And yes, I am also against the idea that women HAVE TO be equal to men in some matters, just like men can't be equal to women in other matters. I am getting tired of all this "we are all equal" nonsense, facts are that we are not.

Please note that I don't question women's intellect at all here (I am saving that for another thread)


The problem is that you're being unclear by saying things like "man" and "woman," when in reality gender is a spectrum.
Funny Snuden hasn't answered. When you come at him with undeniable facts he just dodges.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by Snuden »

gibson wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
Show hidden quotes


The problem is that you're being unclear by saying things like "man" and "woman," when in reality gender is a spectrum.
Funny Snuden hasn't answered. When you come at him with undeniable facts he just dodges.

Lay low on the gasoline fumes... I EVEN SAID GOOD NIGHT BEFORE I LOGGED OFF!
Facts? What facts?
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by Snuden »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Snuden wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I interpret it as you having predetermined behavioral expectations of women to a certain degree. Am I incorrect? "Implied" would really be an understatement. I am pointing out predermined expectations of that degree have historically led to a gross oppression of one gender (and many races -- in other matters). I am arguing predetermined behavioral expectations of that degree should no longer be a thing and for the will of the indivual to purely and utterly and freely exist. Can this stance be so easily criticized?

I cannot express it more simply than this. As I said earlier -- I have no disallusions of swaying anyone's view. I'm providing a voice many people are probably relieved to read.

You are correct in assuming that I like women to act, dress, etc... in a certain way (if I am to consider them a partner or lover)
But that does not mean that I belittle women, who dress or act differently - they are just not for me.

Women can be shipbuilders for all I care, I just find it unappealing to a great extent.

And yes, I am also against the idea that women HAVE TO be equal to men in some matters, just like men can't be equal to women in other matters. I am getting tired of all this "we are all equal" nonsense, facts are that we are not.

Please note that I don't question women's intellect at all here (I am saving that for another thread)


The problem is that you're being unclear by saying things like "man" and "woman," when in reality gender is a spectrum.

Nice try, however, colossal fail.
You are the one referring to "gender" not me :flowers:

I have mentioned "man & woman" referring to sex.

:ear:
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United States of America jap_jon
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by jap_jon »

I think a major reason people are payed to peddle this stuff at American colleges is because of government involvement on various levels, most importantly financial. If people really payed out of pocket for what they wanted to learn, these professors might have actual jobs.
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by lejend »

An interesting tidbit from a book on gender roles and related topics (written by a woman). It is too progressive and atheistic for my taste, but it is certainly an interesting perspective. Women are typically harsh on one another, but this is too much even for m.e

THE LEMON-COLORED MG skids across the road, and the woman driver brings it to a somewhat uncertain halt. She gets out and finds her left front tire flat. Without wasting a moment she prepares to fix it: she looks toward the passing cars as if expecting someone. Recognizing this standard international sign of woman in distress (“weak female let down by male technology”), a station wagon draws up. The driver sees what is wrong at a glance and says comfortingly, “Don't worry. We'll fix that in a jiffy.” To prove his determination, he asks for her jack. He does not ask if she is capable of changing the tire herself because he knows – she is about thirty, smartly dressed and made-up – that she is not. Since she cannot find her jack, he fetches his own, together with his other tools. Five minutes later the job is done and the punctured tire properly stowed. His hands are covered with grease. She offers him an embroidered handkerchief, which he politely refuses. He has a rag for such occasions in his tool box. The woman thanks him profusely, apologizing for her “typically feminine” helplessness. She might have been there till dusk, she says, had he not stopped. He makes no reply and, as she gets back into the car, gallantly shuts the door for her. Through the wound-down window he advises her to have her tire patched at once and she promises to get her garage man to see to it that very evening. Then she drives off.

As the man collects his tools and goes back to his own car, he wishes he could wash his hands. His shoes – he has been standing in the mud while changing the tire – are not as clean as they should be (he is a salesman). What is more, he will have to hurry to keep his next appointment. As he starts the engine he thinks, Women! One's more stupid than the next. He wonders what she would have done if he had not been there to help. He puts his foot on the accelerator and drives off – faster than usual. There is the delay to make up. After a while he starts to hum to himself. In a way, he is happy.

Almost any man would have behaved in the same manner – and so would most women. Without thinking, simply because men are men and women so different from them, a woman will make use of a man whenever there is an opportunity. What else could the woman have done when her car broke down? She has been taught to get a man to help. Thanks to his knowledge, he was able to change the tire quickly – and at no cost to herself. True, he ruined his clothes, put his business in jeopardy, and endangered his own life by driving too fast afterward. Had he found something else wrong with her car, however, he would have repaired that, too. That is what his knowledge of cars is for. Why should a woman learn to change a flat when the opposite sex (half the world's population) is able and willing to do it for her?

Women let men work for them, think for them, and take on their responsibilities – in fact, they exploit them. Yet, since men are strong, intelligent, and imaginative, while women are weak, unimaginative, and stupid, why isn't it men who exploit women? Could it be that strength, intelligence, and imagination are not prerequisites for power but merely qualifications for slavery? Could it be that the world is not being ruled by experts but by beings who are not fit for anything else – by women? And if this is so, how do women manage it so that their victims do not feel themselves cheated and humiliated, but rather believe themselves to be what they are least of all – masters of the universe? How do women manage to instill in men this sense of pride and superiority that inspires them to ever greater achievements?
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Re: This makes me really sad

Post by Vinyanyérë »

First day of hleung's vacation and it's evident this is going to be a long week. @Gendarme add an edit to this post to my to-do list please.
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