The bull and the fearless girl

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Is the author of the bull statue right or wrong?

Yeah, the fearless girl statue shouldn't have been placed there
5
25%
No, it's good that the fearless girl was placed there
2
10%
Longbows need a buff.
13
65%
 
Total votes: 20

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Nauru Dolan
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The bull and the fearless girl

Post by Dolan »

Tldr:
Guy who made the statue of the bull in front of the New York Stock Exchange, which symbolises prosperity and risk-taking (if you've heard about the term -"bull market", you know what I mean), threatens to sue New York City because they placed the statue of a "fearless little girl" in front of the bull. He claims it changes the meaning of his own work completely.

https://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/entertainme ... -1.4044555

His critics say he's being a hypocrite, since when he installed his own piece he had no permit to do that and he eventually got it because people got fond of the bull. Now the same thing happens with the statue of the fearless little girl. They also say he just lacks imagination and fails to see that having this placement of one work of art in front of another can create creative new meanings that were not intended by either authors.

Some say this is a sign of the times and it was about time that the bull, which symbolises everything bad about the current state of the world (corrupt bankers, greedy financiers that took risks which put the whole system at risk, patriarchy etc), was challenged by a fearless little girl, which stands up for the women who are under-represented in the power structures of Wall Street.

It seems to me this is blown way out of any proportion and the artist is right, NY city shouldn't have placed another work of art right in front of the bull, because it changes the meaning of the original work completely and this is unfair to the author of the bull statue.

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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user »

It absolutely interferes with the artist's original intent. However whether this is grounds to sue is stretching a bit too far imo. I can't imagine artists' original intentions are ever always preserved throughout the life of their work. That being said, it almost feels akin to painting a UFO in the background of The Scream or something similarly invasive. Statues occupy the space around them, context is very important. By introducing another statue that is interacting directly with the original you are changing the artist's work. I imagine, legally speaking, the artist does not "own" the piece so he will surely lose any legal battle.

I do like how the two statues work together off each other but this was never the artist's intent and he has a right to be upset about it but really he has no power to do anything about it.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by lejend »

I agree. I think it undermines traditional gender roles.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by fightinfrenchman »

ye i agree with callen, suing over it is silly but he can feel however he wants. However after just learning about the situation 30 seconds ago I have decided I am strongly in favor of the new statue and literally nothing will change my mind about this.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user »

literally I want to organize a protest against the original artist. I've never felt so passionate about something I just learned about a few minutes ago... literally!
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:literally I want to organize a protest against the original artist. I've never felt so passionate about something I just learned about a few minutes ago... literally!


I'm gonna organize a protest in favor of the original artist
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Is it so hard just to move the statues apart and keep both?
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by pecelot »

I don't think anything wrong with suing such a case :!:
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user0 »

Lol...
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

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Post by Dolan »

Somehow, the mayor of NY thinks this is a sexism issue

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Like wtf.

I mean, I get it, it's supposed to make a statement, but that still doesn't make it right to plant whatever you want in front of another statue, just because you want to make your own statement.

And the mayor of NYC doesn't miss the opportunity to jump on the SJW bandwaggon, just to score a few points with voters who care about this issue.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by noissance »

Put the bull by the dumpster
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:Somehow, the mayor of NY thinks this is a sexism issue

Image

Like wtf.

I mean, I get it, it's supposed to make a statement, but that still doesn't make it right to plant whatever you want in front of another statue, just because you want to make your own statement.

And the mayor of NYC doesn't miss the opportunity to jump on the SJW bandwaggon, just to score a few points with voters who care about this issue.


Lol wasn't the bull just planted there too? And it was kept because people wanted it?
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:Somehow, the mayor of NY thinks this is a sexism issue

Image

Like wtf.

I mean, I get it, it's supposed to make a statement, but that still doesn't make it right to plant whatever you want in front of another statue, just because you want to make your own statement.

And the mayor of NYC doesn't miss the opportunity to jump on the SJW bandwaggon, just to score a few points with voters who care about this issue.


Considering its street art, the rules are a bit different imo. Could banksy complain if someone added stuff to his grafitti? Sure he could, but he doesnt have any legal basis...

I understand the artists frustration but as the op said apparantly his statue was never comissioned. And since its public space, if those who decide about that say its ok, he doesnt really have any foundation for complaint
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by Dolan »

He eventually got a permit to leave the bull there, which was extended every year. The girl statue also got a temporary permit, but the situation was different, because when the bull was placed there, there was no other monument in that spot the bull could have interfered with.

So now this statue of a girl was placed there obviously with the intent of mocking the bull, that is, to create advertising for itself by mocking a more famous point of attraction. And, ofc, to gather media interest for the grrrl power cause, by doing that.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user »

Well I think your analysis is very wrong.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:He eventually got a permit to leave the bull there, which was extended every year. The girl statue also got a temporary permit, but the situation was different, because when the bull was placed there, there was no other monument in that spot the bull could have interfered with.

So now this statue of a girl was placed there obviously with the intent of mocking the bull, that is, to create advertising for itself by mocking a more famous point of attraction. And, ofc, to gather media interest for the grrrl power cause, by doing that.


So? A permit has been given, That's really All there's to it. The artist of the bull can always decide to take away his statue, or if he can't because he gave it away, then his game is over
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by Laurence Drake »

deleted_user wrote:Well I think your analysis is very wrong.

oh yeah? well i think yours is wrong as well!
Top quality poster.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by kami_ryu »

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Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Laurence Drake wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Well I think your analysis is very wrong.

oh yeah? well i think yours is wrong as well!

I think your analysis of Callen's analysis of Dolan's analysis is wrong
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by milku3459 »

I think the girl facing down the bull is great placement; don't you think it's inspiring to feel like the little guy can stand up to Wall Street?
but ofc the feminists and sjws feed off it "it's a woman" "if you want to move it you're sexist"
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user0 »

Good article. The artist indeed has a point, and he has reason to be upset, although i personally wouldnt be. Not everyone has such an open view about streetart, which ofcourse is fine. Since he owns the bull still and is leasing it to the city, he can obviously just remove his statue (if the contract allows it). The fearless girl also has only a temporary permit, so one or two years in this combination would be fine imo.

Its good to know its a commissioned piece of work, because it may not necessarily change the message but it does raise questions about the motive, but im not sure if that was the artists actual ppint

The comments section for once consists of mostly good and thought provoking posts. Interesting site
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user »

Important to note that personal investment probably increases if it's $300,000+ of your own money and time to make the sculpture (per the article). I'd be upset if someone sharpie'd a dick on that let alone added an entire new meaning to the piece.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by deleted_user0 »

Well there is a difference between violating someones art and this situation. He owns the bull, but not the street. The artist doesnt own the meaning attributed to his work wither. And i think its exactly the fact that everyone can have a different idea of meaning attached that makes something a great piece of art. If its super straightforward, easy to interpret and one dimensional, its just a boring piece of work. He can have a different idea of what it means, he can release an official statement, but i dont feel he should ever own the rights to its meaning, if that happens its the end of freedom of interpretation, and in a way of speech.
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Re: The bull and the fearless girl

Post by Goodspeed »

umeu wrote:Well there is a difference between violating someones art and this situation. He owns the bull, but not the street. The artist doesnt own the meaning attributed to his work wither. And i think its exactly the fact that everyone can have a different idea of meaning attached that makes something a great piece of art. If its super straightforward, easy to interpret and one dimensional, its just a boring piece of work. He can have a different idea of what it means, he can release an official statement, but i dont feel he should ever own the rights to its meaning, if that happens its the end of freedom of interpretation, and in a way of speech.
In a way they added to his work which is changing the work itself.

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