The bull and the fearless girl

[deleted_user]

We are agreeing with each other.

[deleted_user0]

Yes they did, but its consequence of being in the public space. If i would get a permit for a work of art opposite of the empire state, and its theme would be somehow related to it, it would add to and thus change the meaning of the ESB as a result of their direct proximity. Yet its not up to the architects of the empire state to determine therefore what can be built next to their building. Thats for other people to decide, and these people approved of the fearless girl. If you dont want the meaning of your work to change due to association with its direct enviroment, you shouldnt place it in a public space, but in a museum or a even a more private place where you can control the enviroment

[Goodspeed]

Fair point but in this particular case it's not only a consequence of being in a public space. The girl interacting with the bull statue is not an accident, which imo is a significant difference.

[deleted_user0]

I dont really see why that changes anything, unless its done with the specific intention of slandering the artist, which i dont think was the case, but even then i expect the municipal people to take this into consideration when reviewing the application. Ultimately this issue comes down to who decides on what is being portrayed in public space. This is a special case because the artist still owns the work of art, but imo this gives him no more rights but the right of removing the artwork from the public space.

[Dolan]

It's not just that the girl statue parasitises another work of art, because lots of such works are nothing but derivations of previous works. It's more that the whole project is a marketing-driven ploy, which under the guise of supporting a feminist cause is advertising for a financial fund.

So, first came the financial-advertising commission, then the girl piece, which was conceived solely as a PR stunt for the SHE fund.

[deleted_user]

I'd gander most of the "advertising" is from people complaining that it's advertising.

[deleted_user0]

It's not just that the girl statue parasitises another work of art, because lots of such works are nothing but derivations of previous works. It's more that the whole project is a marketing-driven ploy, which under the guise of supporting a feminist cause is advertising for a financial fund.

So, first came the financial-advertising commission, then the girl piece, which was conceived solely as a PR stunt for the SHE fund.

Its not great advertising then cuz most people probably didnt even know what she was until pointed to that fact by people claiming its advertising, and even then i dont get how it changes the issue. The artist is symply not the one who decides what is allowed in the public space. He has a right to complain and protest the decision ofcourse, but frankly i believe his arguments are weak. Sure it sux if the statue was just a marketing tool, though it doesnt have to be only that when it is that, but that doesnt mean it has to go.

Ultimately, it should go as with the bull statue, let the new york public decide wether or not this situation should remain and if so, for how long.

[pecelot]

But it directly interferes with the bull — I get your point about public space, but still, without the bull the girl would mean virtually nothing.

[deleted_user0]

Nah, it would still mean something, something else maybe, but not nothing or close to it. And ofcourse it interacts with the bull, but as i said, thats something you simply cant escape in a physical space. And yes the interaction is intentional, but so what?

[pecelot]

So now imagine a sculpture of a young soldier in Warsaw uprising. Do you think placing idk gay parents behind him would be a good idea?

[Laurence Drake]

ye

[deleted_user0]

Well, depends on wether you believe the association with gay parenthood tarnishes the memory of the warshaw uprising. Im not saying that everything should be allowed, placing a statue of bin laden next to the 9/11 site seems disrespectful. However its not for the architects of the 9/11 memorial to decide what can and what cant be placed next to their creation. So far i havent heard a compelling argument in favor of this when it comes to the bull. The municipal representatives decide this, and ultimately if the public dislikes their decision, im sure any country that respects their citizens even just a little would take that protest under consideration. But the public seems to side against the artist of the bull, so he can swallow his defeat or take his bull home.

[pecelot]

I get your kind of liberal point of view on the matter of managing public space, though I wouldn't necessarily agree. My example was to show that such an addition would entirely change the meaning of the original monument undeniably, which is naturally against initial intentions of the author. Hence, he does have a point.

[deleted_user0]

To repeat myself again, im not disputing his point, im disputing that his authorship of the artwork gives him authority to decide over what is placed in the public space surrounding it.

I do expect the people who make these decisions to realise the effect that placing objects in each others vicinity have. And i think they have done so in this case as well, though i cant be sure.

There is a sculpture of a dog in my city, and then another artist sculpted a dogpoo next to it. The dog was commisioned, the dogpoo wasnt, sometimes life just gives u shit. But the public could appreciate the joke, so the dogpoo remains, even though it gets its meaning only from being close to the dog. The munincipality couldve removed the dogpoo, since there was no license, same for the bull, but they listened to the people that live and work in that space instead. And that trumps wether or not the artist thinks the dogpoo is funny or insulting, and rightly so, imo, otherwise anyone who ever built something will have a veto about new projects in the public space.

[Dolan]

Pissed-off artist adds statue of urinating dog next to ‘Fearless Girl’

[deleted_user0]

Now thats a gud move :p and nyc just became a little, timy bit cooler

[deleted_user]

Yeah I like this.