Why do people like Lord of the Rings so much?

[Jaeger]

I haven't read the books, I've just watched the first one and a half movies. IMO the only thing going for the movies is the great scenery. Here are some of the things I don't like about it:

-Very one-dimensional, so far there is just one storyline basically
-Zero character development
-They could have just thrown a ring in a very deep lake or in another volcano, problem solved
-I don't get why everybody fears Sauron so much, in the beginning of the first movie he just seems like a huge 3m tall guy who lost to a normal guy with a normal sword, that's all. Oh and I guess he has the power to make the image on an eye in everybody's mind, which hurts them for some reason.
-Gandalf suck a lot. He has been a wizard all his life, but his only power is to pick uf shit with his staff. Waste of what could have been a cool character.
-Too much random shit just happens all the time with no explanation and no connection to the story. For example, they meet an elf queen out of nowhere. They make it seem like it's a big deal, but 5 minutes later they leave and there was no point to that scene
-The way the characters talk is stupid. Pretty sure nobody would ever talk like that.

[deleted_user]

@Vinyanenya

[Vinyanyérë]

I'll address the first two points at a later time, cause they're a bit more difficult to go over compared to the rest, which are more factual in nature.

They could have just thrown a ring in a very deep lake or in another volcano, problem solved

They discussed (in the books) the option of hiding the ring, e.g. by throwing it into the sea. This wasn't considered an option because Sauron even without the ring had the strength to overcome all of the free peoples. Keeping the ring out of Sauron's hands would be delaying the inevitable.

As for destroying the One with a different volcano, there's a few problems: firstly, Orodruin (Mount Doom) is the only volcano left in Middle Earth (AFAIK). Secondly, only the fires of Mount Doom were capable of destroying the One, partially due to its being forged there. Dragon fire was capable of melting some of the lesser rings (several dwarven rings were lost to dragons, for instance), but no dragon had the option of destroying the One (discussed in both movies and books).

I don't get why everybody fears Sauron so much, in the beginning of the first movie he just seems like a huge 3m tall guy who lost to a normal guy with a normal sword, that's all. Oh and I guess he has the power to make the image on an eye in everybody's mind, which hurts them for some reason.

The movie portrayed this somewhat incorrectly. Sauron dueled first against Elendil, one of the greatest kings of Men, and Gil-galad, last High King of the Noldor (a branch of Elves), and defeated them both. It was only afterwards that Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's finger, with the implication being that Isildur was cleaning up after Sauron had expended energy fighting Elendil and Gil-galad. Sauron himself is a Maia, which is roughly demigod status in the LoTR hierarchy. Among the Maiar, Sauron was among the most powerful. His power was both in his raw strength (able to defeat both Elendil and Gil-galad in combat) and apparent in more subtle ways, such as his skill in smithing (crafting the Rings of Power was not a trivial feat) and in using his will to corrupt/influence/dominate others. At full strength, he is singly more powerful than any other being in Middle Earth.

Gandalf suck a lot. He has been a wizard all his life, but his only power is to pick uf shit with his staff. Waste of what could have been a cool character.

This is hinted at in the films and books, but I believe it's only outright stated in the Appendices/Silmarillion/etc. Gandalf is also a Maia, meaning that he'd be the most powerful being in Middle Earth save the other Wizards, Sauron, and Balrogs (all of which are Maiar). He and the other wizards belong to the Istari, which is a limitation placed on their power by the Valar (think Greek Gods). They are severely limited in the outright power that they're allowed to use, and are instead meant to aid the Free Peoples chiefly through guidance. As for why they're required to do that, I believe that it stems mostly from the War of Wrath, which occurred about 6,000 years before the Lord of the Rings. During the War of Wrath, the Valar themselves participated directly in the fight against an enemy named Morgoth, and the entire continent of Beleriand was destroyed as a result. This was generally regarded as a bad idea, and the Valar decided to look for indirect ways to influence events in Middle Earth.

Too much random shit just happens all the time with no explanation and no connection to the story. For example, they meet an elf queen out of nowhere. They make it seem like it's a big deal, but 5 minutes later they leave and there was no point to that scene

So the Galadriel thing happens for a few reasons. Structurally, it's done to help the pacing of the films (and books), slowing things down between the events at Moria and the later Skirmish at Amon Hen. From a plot perspective, going to Lorien was the next logical step for the Fellowship (the woods are a place of relative safety), and the gifts that they receive play roles in later events in the film. On a deeper level, the trip to Lothlorien connects to a wider subplot related to Galadriel, as well as plots related to Boromir and the temptation of the Ring.

The way the characters talk is stupid. Pretty sure nobody would ever talk like that.

And do you know what this Duck says to that? Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul!

[Jaeger]

I'll address the first two points at a later time, cause they're a bit more difficult to go over compared to the rest, which are more factual in nature.

They could have just thrown a ring in a very deep lake or in another volcano, problem solved

They discussed (in the books) the option of hiding the ring, e.g. by throwing it into the sea. This wasn't considered an option because Sauron even without the ring had the strength to overcome all of the free peoples. Keeping the ring out of Sauron's hands would be delaying the inevitable.

As for destroying the One with a different volcano, there's a few problems: firstly, Orodruin (Mount Doom) is the only volcano left in Middle Earth (AFAIK). Secondly, only the fires of Mount Doom were capable of destroying the One, partially due to its being forged there. Dragon fire was capable of melting some of the lesser rings (several dwarven rings were lost to dragons, for instance), but no dragon had the option of destroying the One (discussed in both movies and books).

Well from the movies I didn't get that Sauron would die or become inccapacitated if the ring was destroyed, as you seem to be implying.

I don't get why everybody fears Sauron so much, in the beginning of the first movie he just seems like a huge 3m tall guy who lost to a normal guy with a normal sword, that's all. Oh and I guess he has the power to make the image on an eye in everybody's mind, which hurts them for some reason.

The movie portrayed this somewhat incorrectly. Sauron dueled first against Elendil, one of the greatest kings of Men, and Gil-galad, last High King of the Noldor (a branch of Elves), and defeated them both. It was only afterwards that Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's finger, with the implication being that Isildur was cleaning up after Sauron had expended energy fighting Elendil and Gil-galad. Sauron himself is a Maia, which is roughly demigod status in the LoTR hierarchy. Among the Maiar, Sauron was among the most powerful. His power was both in his raw strength (able to defeat both Elendil and Gil-galad in combat) and apparent in more subtle ways, such as his skill in smithing (crafting the Rings of Power was not a trivial feat) and in using his will to corrupt/influence/dominate others. At full strength, he is singly more powerful than any other being in Middle Earth.

I don't see why it's important that he defeated kings. Are kings usually the most powerful warriors in LOTR? Anyway, my point is that from the scenes I have seen Sauron fight in, he doesn't seem to have other powers than the physical strength of the 5 meter monster he is. Meaning that I'm sure he would destroy most people in 1v1, but he would pose no problem to 10 guys with bows

Gandalf suck a lot. He has been a wizard all his life, but his only power is to pick uf shit with his staff. Waste of what could have been a cool character.

This is hinted at in the films and books, but I believe it's only outright stated in the Appendices/Silmarillion/etc. Gandalf is also a Maia, meaning that he'd be the most powerful being in Middle Earth save the other Wizards, Sauron, and Balrogs (all of which are Maiar). He and the other wizards belong to the Istari, which is a limitation placed on their power by the Valar (think Greek Gods). They are severely limited in the outright power that they're allowed to use, and are instead meant to aid the Free Peoples chiefly through guidance. As for why they're required to do that, I believe that it stems mostly from the War of Wrath, which occurred about 6,000 years before the Lord of the Rings. During the War of Wrath, the Valar themselves participated directly in the fight against an enemy named Morgoth, and the entire continent of Beleriand was destroyed as a result. This was generally regarded as a bad idea, and the Valar decided to look for indirect ways to influence events in Middle Earth.
Do the wizards have permanent limitations on their power, or do they just have limitations when it comes to interfering in the Free Peoples' affairs? When Gandolf fights the wizard who switched alligence to Sauron, I was expecting an epic fight. But they were just picking each other up with their staffs, which was lame.

Too much random shit just happens all the time with no explanation and no connection to the story. For example, they meet an elf queen out of nowhere. They make it seem like it's a big deal, but 5 minutes later they leave and there was no point to that scene

So the Galadriel thing happens for a few reasons. Structurally, it's done to help the pacing of the films (and books), slowing things down between the events at Moria and the later Skirmish at Amon Hen. From a plot perspective, going to Lorien was the next logical step for the Fellowship (the woods are a place of relative safety), and the gifts that they receive play roles in later events in the film. On a deeper level, the trip to Lothlorien connects to a wider subplot related to Galadriel, as well as plots related to Boromir and the temptation of the Ring.
I don't know. It feels like they're just introducing new characters and events all the time which you think are important, but just end up seeming very shallow and meaningless.

The way the characters talk is stupid. Pretty sure nobody would ever talk like that.

And do you know what this Duck says to that? Ishkhaqwi ai durugnul!
I'm not talking about their languages. I'm talking about (for example) when they enunciate stuff like "We must attack the fortress, else the enemy will be upon us!"

[milku3459]

This was written in the 20th century, so the language may seem a little out of touch.

One dimensional? LOTR survives to this day because it is one of the most complicated fantasy universes to be in a book. Tolkien made up several written languages for the characters to use complete with grammar rules, alphabets...there are so many storylines going on at once; there's aragorn reclaiming the kingship, frodo and sam burning the ring on brokeback mountain, gandalf influencing everything, pippin and merry getting kidnapped, defense of rohan, saruman's takeover of the shire, etc. And that's just in the story--in the Appendices there is a full history of the entire race of the dwarves, accounts of other famous stories...in short calling LOTR one-dimensional is just wrong.
I guess the movies don't do that justice. But still how could you say it's "one storyline"? If the subplots all count together as one story, then go watch 6 movies at the same time for multiple plots!

[deleted_user]

I should read the books.

[pecelot]

Yeah, well, judging the whole series only by the movies seems somewhat inappropriate...

[Vinyanyérë]

Well from the movies I didn't get that Sauron would die or become inccapacitated if the ring was destroyed, as you seem to be implying.

It was indicated that this would happen in two places that I can recall: the first was when Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's finger, making him explode. The second was when Elrond took Isildur up to Mount Doom and told Isildur to destroy the Ring.

I don't see why it's important that he defeated kings. Are kings usually the most powerful warriors in LOTR? Anyway, my point is that from the scenes I have seen Sauron fight in, he doesn't seem to have other powers than the physical strength of the 5 meter monster he is. Meaning that I'm sure he would destroy most people in 1v1, but he would pose no problem to 10 guys with bows

Yes, kings are generally the most powerful. This isn't an entirely arbitrary thing; the rulers in MIddle-Earth tend to come from the best bloodlines. E.g. Elendil and Isildur are Numenorean, a branch of Men that were given special power from the Valar, and are furthermore descended from Elros, the brother of Elrond. Gil-galad is Noldorin, putting him in the category of "high" Elves. Faramir and Boromir have Numenorean blood (though heavily diluted).

Sauron's power is heavily invested in his ability to control others, the Orcs of Mordor are mostly a non-issue without him. He is also very good at deception, although the movies don't quite make this clear. All nineteen rings of power (the Three, Seven, and Nine) were forged by Celebrimbor, with the Seven and Nine forged with Sauron's aid. These nineteen were intended by Celebrimbor to be used by Elves, but in actuality were to be used by Sauron to help him control the Elves. It was his near-success in doing this that showcases his skill at deception although the movies gloss over this somewhat.

Do the wizards have permanent limitations on their power, or do they just have limitations when it comes to interfering in the Free Peoples' affairs? When Gandolf fights the wizard who switched alligence to Sauron, I was expecting an epic fight. But they were just picking each other up with their staffs, which was lame.

Somewhere in between I believe. Gandalf and Saruman have the bodies of old men, and carry with that all of those limitations, but have some ability to use their full powers (such as when Gandalf fights against the Balrog). The fight between Gandalf and Saruman isn't described in the book and it's possible that it doesn't even happen (it is mostly described as Gandalf being imprisoned in Isengard). Peter Jackson's interpretation here was not the best.

I don't know. It feels like they're just introducing new characters and events all the time which you think are important, but just end up seeming very shallow and meaningless.

Most of the characters who get introduced by the 1.5 mark are going to be pretty important by the end of RotK. Galadriel's role in the films is a bit different from her book role; in the wider story of the books she's extremely important to the shaping of events in Middle-Earth (though she doesn't appear extremely often in the books). In the films, there's not enough time to talk about all of that, so she's made more important to the plot in other areas. Overall, it would be best to describe her as someone who's not extraordinarily relevant to the War of the Ring, but who has a lot of influence in Middle-Earth.

I'm not talking about their languages. I'm talking about (for example) when they enunciate stuff like "We must attack the fortress, else the enemy will be upon us!"

I wasn't being entirely serious. Anyway, a big reason behind this is that most of the characters who appear are either Elves, for whom snobbery is a racial trait (Haldir), of royal descent/upper class (Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, Frodo, Gimli, Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, etc.), or both (Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Arwen, Legolas).

[edeholland]

Imo if you need books to explain a movie than the movie adaptation is just not very good. Same goes for Harry Potter where you ask a question about the movies and it's answered by quoting the book.

However looks like ovi is judging the whole series and not just the books. :p

[deleted_user0]

Well from the movies I didn't get that Sauron would die or become inccapacitated if the ring was destroyed, as you seem to be implying.

It was indicated that this would happen in two places that I can recall: the first was when Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's finger, making him explode. The second was when Elrond took Isildur up to Mount Doom and told Isildur to destroy the Ring.

I don't see why it's important that he defeated kings. Are kings usually the most powerful warriors in LOTR? Anyway, my point is that from the scenes I have seen Sauron fight in, he doesn't seem to have other powers than the physical strength of the 5 meter monster he is. Meaning that I'm sure he would destroy most people in 1v1, but he would pose no problem to 10 guys with bows

Yes, kings are generally the most powerful. This isn't an entirely arbitrary thing; the rulers in MIddle-Earth tend to come from the best bloodlines. E.g. Elendil and Isildur are Numenorean, a branch of Men that were given special power from the Valar, and are furthermore descended from Elros, the brother of Elrond. Gil-galad is Noldorin, putting him in the category of "high" Elves. Faramir and Boromir have Numenorean blood (though heavily diluted).

Sauron's power is heavily invested in his ability to control others, the Orcs of Mordor are mostly a non-issue without him. He is also very good at deception, although the movies don't quite make this clear. All nineteen rings of power (the Three, Seven, and Nine) were forged by Celebrimbor, with the Seven and Nine forged with Sauron's aid. These nineteen were intended by Celebrimbor to be used by Elves, but in actuality were to be used by Sauron to help him control the Elves. It was his near-success in doing this that showcases his skill at deception although the movies gloss over this somewhat.

Do the wizards have permanent limitations on their power, or do they just have limitations when it comes to interfering in the Free Peoples' affairs? When Gandolf fights the wizard who switched alligence to Sauron, I was expecting an epic fight. But they were just picking each other up with their staffs, which was lame.

Somewhere in between I believe. Gandalf and Saruman have the bodies of old men, and carry with that all of those limitations, but have some ability to use their full powers (such as when Gandalf fights against the Balrog). The fight between Gandalf and Saruman isn't described in the book and it's possible that it doesn't even happen (it is mostly described as Gandalf being imprisoned in Isengard). Peter Jackson's interpretation here was not the best.

I don't know. It feels like they're just introducing new characters and events all the time which you think are important, but just end up seeming very shallow and meaningless.

Most of the characters who get introduced by the 1.5 mark are going to be pretty important by the end of RotK. Galadriel's role in the films is a bit different from her book role; in the wider story of the books she's extremely important to the shaping of events in Middle-Earth (though she doesn't appear extremely often in the books). In the films, there's not enough time to talk about all of that, so she's made more important to the plot in other areas. Overall, it would be best to describe her as someone who's not extraordinarily relevant to the War of the Ring, but who has a lot of influence in Middle-Earth.

I'm not talking about their languages. I'm talking about (for example) when they enunciate stuff like "We must attack the fortress, else the enemy will be upon us!"

I wasn't being entirely serious. Anyway, a big reason behind this is that most of the characters who appear are either Elves, for whom snobbery is a racial trait (Haldir), of royal descent/upper class (Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, Frodo, Gimli, Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, etc.), or both (Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Arwen, Legolas).

Sauron wasnt just a big dude, he was basically the right hand of a demi god. So like saruman and gandalf, he was a very powerful wizard.

[Goodspeed]

Almost triggered me @ovi12. You're trolling right?

[Laurence Drake]

I should read the books.

I should read books.

[Jam]

I should read the books.

I should read books.

I should read about books.

[Jaeger]

I should read the books.

I should read books.

I should read about books.

You may want to read How to Read a Book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Read_a_Book

[XeeleeFlower]

I should read the books.

I should read books.

I should read about books.

You should write books.

[lejend]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

[deleted_user0]

Not against nazi tanks? Or penguin hordes?

[milku3459]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

Are you talking about Faramir? It wasn't quite so suicidy in the books...

I think a better allegory would be Poles vs Wehrmacht panzers XD

[Goodspeed]

I should read books.

I should read about books.

You should write books.

This

[Laurence Drake]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

this is a better troll than the op tbh

[pecelot]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

every opportunity is suitable for a dank meme :V

[milku3459]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

every opportunity is suitable for a dank meme :V

marching into poland feelsgood

[milku3459]

It's an allegory for real life. The human charge against the orcs, is reminiscent of the Polish Hussar charge against the Muslims, as an example.

every opportunity is suitable for a dank meme :V

marching into poland feelsgood

[pecelot]

Are you an obsessed neo-nazi kid? You harass me every time with Wehrmacht marching into Poland, as if that was funny

[Laurence Drake]

yeah it's pretty funny how Poland has been occupied by Germany no fewer than four times.