Donald Trump and Kynesie

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Tuvalu gibson
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Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by gibson »

It's not just Donald trump who's pushing average people to the far right, the way the American political system is set up it pushes everyone to the far right or to the far left. A candidate close to the middle will never represent a major party because now in order to run as a Republican or Democrat you have to believe 90% of the parties agenda.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by gibson »

drlegend wrote:
gibson wrote:Its not just Donald trump whos pushing average people to the far right, the way the American political system is set up it pushes everyone to the far right or to the far left. A candidate close to the middle will never represent a major party because now in order to run as a Republican or Democrat you have to believe 90% of the parties agenda.
Thats just for Democrats. Republicans have no problem nominating someone who disagrees with them on half or more of the issues. McCain and Romney were very liberal by Republican standards, and until Trump ran the expected nominee for the next election was Bush, who is widely considered a "moderate" (leftist) by conservatives. But look to the other party and see who is running: Hillary (Fabian socialist) and Sanders (avowed socialist).

I stopped reading when you said McCain and Romney were very liberal. Liberal by Republican standards is just 85% to the right instead of 95%
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Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by drac3130 »

drlegend wrote:McCain is rated at less than 50% conservative (F) according to the Conservative Review. He''s essentially a liberal.

Romney is from Massachusetts. According to a study that measured the "polarization" of political parties in state governments, the average Massachusetts Republican is to the left of the average Democrat in red states. Romney considered himself as a "progressive" and supported a number of far left programs, including RomneyCare (ObamaCare for Massachusetts), gay marriage and abortion.
You fail to mention how their position change as they go through the nomination process. By that logic, Trump is a "liberal" because he was a democrat until 3 days before his announcement.

McCain and Romney both disavowed many of their more liberal position during the nomination and during the general compaign. Many would say Obama and Hillary are pretty conservative on their foreign policy, Gitmo, NSA, etc. issues. Obama and Hillary didn''t support gay marriage until about 2012 (even though I can admit they didn''t before then for political reasons).

Both parties field very far left/right candidates. But it would be wrong to say that Dems do it more/more strongly because that makes no sense. The Dems only have one viable candidate right now, and 2 viable ones in the 2008 elections. Reps for the last 2 elections have had 10+. When you have 2-3 viable candidates you don''t have to go far right or left to appease your base. Look at Reps right now, everyone is trying to be as conservative as possible to appeal to the Tea Party Right while Hillary hasn''t changed a single policy position in the last 1.5 years despite Bernie running. The disarray and fragementation of the party contribute to how heavily polar each party''s candidates become. Republicans just have too many candidates representing too many different issues and with too many different degrees. That forces a march toward the right for them.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by gibson »

drac3130 wrote:
drlegend wrote:McCain is rated at less than 50% conservative (F) according to the Conservative Review. Hes essentially a liberal.

Romney is from Massachusetts. According to a study that measured the "polarization" of political parties in state governments, the average Massachusetts Republican is to the left of the average Democrat in red states. Romney considered himself as a "progressive" and supported a number of far left programs, including RomneyCare (ObamaCare for Massachusetts), gay marriage and abortion.
You fail to mention how their position change as they go through the nomination process. By that logic, Trump is a "liberal" because he was a democrat until 3 days before his announcement.?

McCain and Romney both disavowed many of their more liberal position during the nomination and during the general compaign. Many would say Obama and Hillary are pretty conservative on their foreign policy, Gitmo, NSA, etc. issues. Obama and Hillary didnt support gay marriage until about 2012 (even though I can admit they didnt before then for political reasons).?
?
Both parties field very far left/right candidates. But it would be wrong to say that Dems do it more/more strongly because that makes no sense. The Dems only have one viable candidate right now, and 2 viable ones in the 2008 elections. Reps for the last 2 elections have had 10+. When you have 2-3 viable candidates you dont have to go far right or left to appease your base. Look at Reps right now, everyone is trying to be as conservative as possible to appeal to the Tea Party Right while Hillary hasnt changed a single policy position in the last 1.5 years despite Bernie running. The disarray and fragementation of the party contribute to how heavily polar each partys candidates become. Republicans just have too many candidates representing too many different issues and with too many different degrees. That forces a march toward the right for them.?

Yea basically this. Thats what I was gonna say plus much more
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Post by drac3130 »

drlegend wrote:McCain is a liberal when elections are far away. When elections are close he suddenly becomes far right. Romney was a progressive from one of the most liberal states in the country for decades. The idea that conservatives didn''t know they were "moderates" is more evidence that liberals know nothing about the other side. The entire race every 4 years is about whether to nominate the "true conservative" or the "moderate" and the moderate wins every time.

I like that arbitrary one and a half year window for flipflops though. Smoking all that pot most likely has fried the ability of most Democrat voters to remember longer than that. And yet you''re still wrong. She supported TPP until Sanders came along, now she is suddenly a champion of protectionism and against TPP. Funnily enough she supported the NAFTA deal until relatively recently as well. Pro-free trade when the polls are for it, anti-free trade when the polls are against it. Leadership!
I am simply pointing out how "moderism" has changed. 4 years ago, a moderate Republican would be against abortion in all cases except danger to the mother''s life, rape, and incest. Today, two of the "moderate" candidates (Rubio and Walker) are in favor of an absolute ban on abortion. 4 years ago, Republicans would have favored major bump up in security on the border and some sort of immigration reform...now 25+% of the party favors a wall and mass deportation.

The Democrats have pretty much not moved in the last 8+ years. They have always been slightly protectionist, highest taxes on wealthy, etc etc. I would hardly say Hillary is more of a socialist than Obama or Kerry. But I will definately say that Rubio and Walker are more conservative both socially and economically than Bush Jr., McCain, and Romney.
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

drlegend wrote:A few minutes ago you were whining about how it is stupid to make election predictions 16 months before the election, but now you seem to be sure which way every demographic and state will vote. The rant about demographics was predictable. Texas is mostly made up of Hispanics and blacks and is a solid red state where Hispanics vote Republican at rates near 50% (even Neitzluber votes Republican). Women are also becoming more Republican. Blacks are usually either in solid red states or solid blue states and aren''t necessary to victory. All a Republican needs to improve on (from Romney in 2012) to win is a few percentage points in a handful of swing states, probably from ''white'' working-class people, who have been abandoned by the Democrats and are becoming more and more Republican and could be won with Trump''s rhetoric about how China is stealing manufacturing jobs or whatever.

And I''m pretty sure that Jorge (an activist, not journalist) was kicked out because he thought he could shut down the conference and speak over the other reporters when it wasn''t his turn.
Lol Neitzluber, I completely forget about that guy.
How come he votes republican though?
You must be joking. That or you were right and he was a troll all along.
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Mali SenorCallen
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Re: Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by SenorCallen »

gibson wrote:Just saying if the presidential election is Clinton vs trump I'm moving to Europe

How is that going for you so far
"I suck"

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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Donald Trump and Kynesie

Post by gibson »

SenorCallen wrote:
gibson wrote:Just saying if the presidential election is Clinton vs trump I'm moving to Europe

How is that going for you so far
im fucking eurotrash babes all day er day so id say pretty good

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