Brexin

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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Brexin

Post by Laurence Drake »

Dolan wrote:Imo, it shows the UK govt has crap legal advisors. They should have been able to see this in advance. How can you think you can get away with initiating a task with such colossal implications without even having a vote on a mandate. I mean, for fuck's sake, she (May) wasn't even appointed by Parliament, she was just nominated by her party and appointed by the queen. And she started working on pulling the UK out of the EU without ever being entrusted any political mandate by Parliament.

It says a lot about our legal system when rich investment managers are needed to finance landmark court cases that affect the direction taken by the country.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Brexin

Post by Laurence Drake »

Panmaster wrote:
jsimons1289 wrote:Better buy some dollars ASAP

5 months too late since the 1.50 peak.
The £:$ wasn't exactly stable to begin with.

Europe will cease to exist if something isn't done. The troubles in France are just the beginning thanks to the morons in Ivory Towers letting them in and wanting open borders for those "engineers and doctors".

Wasn't it you who kept saying 'the pound has stabilised'?
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Re: Brexin

Post by musketjr »

Dolan wrote:Imo, it shows the UK govt has crap legal advisors. They should have been able to see this in advance. How can you think you can get away with initiating a task with such colossal implications without even having a vote on a mandate. I mean, for fuck's sake, she (May) wasn't even appointed by Parliament, she was just nominated by her party and appointed by the queen. And she started working on pulling the UK out of the EU without ever being entrusted any political mandate by Parliament.


again, lazy assumptions. the uk's constitution is partly written, partly unwritten, and therefore dispersed through various materials. there was no provision to follow, hence the case.
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Re: Brexin

Post by musketjr »

it's not like the American constitution, and wasn't written at any one time. instead we have some constitutional-type documents, eg a series of Parliament Acts (legislation) from the 1900s which inform us about the interaction between the two Houses of Parliament, or, another example would be another piece of legislation, the Constitutional Reform Act 2005, which tells us ministers have to uphold the 'rule of law'. as you can see, it's very different.

we also have conventions - things which operate as 'true' because it has been agreed that they are true. parliamentary supremacy is one. meaning that parliament is the supreme law making authority. this is so because the judges recognise, and agree to abide by, that authority.

so you know, the whole brexit thing. there was no concrete constitutional guidance. there was the idea that since it involved repealing the Act of parliament (eca 72) which enjoined us with Europe, that it would likewise take an Act to undo it. this of course was the plaintiff's argument, as against the government, which three of our most senior judges agreed with yesterday.

interesting times we live in!
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Great Britain oats13
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Re: Brexin

Post by oats13 »

What people are failing to appreciate largely is the intention of the proposed 'great reform bill'.

The rough idea is that since there is too much E.U law to unpick in the two years that will follow A50 being triggered then instead ALL E.U law becomes British law.

As well as insuring as smooth as possible a transition for businesses, that law can also be unpicked at leisure in the future and that at each election Labour, the Conservatives etc. will be able to put a manifesto to the people of what they intend to unpick.

This means that rather than MP's deciding now what will happen rather the people will eventually decide the nature of the scope of changes to follow.

Seems perfectly fair to me.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Brexin

Post by Dolan »

musketjr wrote:
Dolan wrote:again, lazy assumptions. the uk's constitution is partly written, partly unwritten, and therefore dispersed through various materials. there was no provision to follow, hence the case.


If you search the news this is not a new topic. The UK govt knew about this risk ever since it came to power. They just chose to go with the prerogative story, because it was the path that involved Parliament the least, and thus avoided opening a can of worms (debates, conditions set by MPs on negotiations, a lot of political posturing by MPs wanting to capitalise on such debates etc).

But I think it was an irresponsible way of dealing with the fact that at no point in this procedure did May have a mandate voted by Parliament. How far can you go in the UK changing laws without any mandate to do so from Parliament? You think you could go far just based on the royal prerogative?

I know there have been debates among law specialists, arguing that this is a matter of dealing with treaties, which is part of HM govt's prerogative, that needn't involve Parliament.

At one point, someone even floated this idea that the UK could simply repeal the ECA 72, which would end, de facto and de jure, all EU ascendancy over the UK in matters of legislation. It would be a unilateral act of leaving the EU, which in diplomacy is considered an unfriendly method of leaving a regional integration organisation (such as the EU). And it wouldn't cancel obligations arising from EU treaties on which UK is a signatory. It could create a weird situation in which the UK wouldn't be able to access the Common market, UK citizens wouldn't have any freedom of movement in the EU, but the UK govt would still be under the obligation to make payments to the EU budget. So, this couldn't be a workable solution.

The only way the ECA 72 could be repealed in advance is if the law enacted provided for a 2-year moratorium, to allow for the government to negotiate Brexit by withdrawing from the relevant treaties first.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Brexin

Post by Laurence Drake »

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXQpDDcrN-w[/video]
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Re: Brexin

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Re: Brexin

Post by Gendarme »

Interestingly enough, I was also looking through old threads to troll-bump today. I decided to not do it, though.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Great Britain oats13
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Re: Brexin

Post by oats13 »

Amateur ;)
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