climate change - how to go forward

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climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

The former climate change thread are closed, for some reason I am not aware of. So I am making a new one here, cos this is THE most important topic we are facing.
I will post 2 videoes, one explaining how climate change are affecting us right now!
and one with the talk of Joe Lassiter https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... ZzlxJTvM3A Giving a speach where he is advocating for more nuclear power to solve future and present needs for energy :unsure: Tbo, I think he is right, and we need more nuclear power AND more hydro, solar and wind power. But the renweable souses of power may not be sufficient. As this Lassiter say, 1 billion ppl do not have electric power supply today!

[video]https://youtu.be/9he_yIbji08[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/d-8n24ZwZcQ[/video]
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Gendarme »

Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

thx @gendarme I will copy and past to the other thread
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Gendarme »

My point was rather that what you're saying is pointless, than the fact that there is another thread on the topic. The climate will be the same regardless of what we do, hence the "/thread", implying that the discussion is over.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Goodspeed »

Gendarme wrote:The climate will be the same regardless of what we do,
Seriously?
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

I think I will go forward with this thread, and hope it will have a main focus on the "going forward" :idea:
Any discussion on weather the climate change are real, and that we are suffering from it RIGHT NOW, could be taken in the other thread - pls :shock:

There are much more safe ways to produce nuclear power in the future with Thorium, instead of Uranium. This researc where left in favour of Uranium back in the 1950s, in the cold war climate - cos they wanted to produce weapons. Now it will take billions of dollars, and a political will to make it viable. Tbh I think this is the ONLY way to solve the need for power, and save the planet.
[video]https://youtu.be/WGBkV3ZLTDI[/video]

Bill Gates, Norwegian scientists, China and India are doing research on this, but it should be more speedy to have any serious effect, before its to late.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by musketjr »

Goodspeed wrote:
Gendarme wrote:The climate will be the same regardless of what we do,
Seriously?


gendarme thinks the rothschilds rule the world and enslave the americans through the (drumroll please) FEDERAL RESERVE.

what I mean is he doesn't think what you quoted, he has just assimilated these vague conspiratorial ideas which exist in the ether of the right by some form of osmoses by association with them generally (eg the psychotic conspiracies I mention above are a symptom of some of the far right which he clearly identifies with).

more interestingly, people with genuine intelligence and education like ben shapiro, as part of the alt (not far) right take a similar view on global warming, which seems to me to be a chink in an otherwise pretty solid armour of adhering to rational thought for people like him

but perhaps - and most likely - we are all prone to this selective bias. I remind you all, again, of our resident objectivity freak, the walking Wikipedia citation himself who, and no I shall never let him live it down, COMPARED KILLING ANIMALS TO KILLING PLANTS. this is a clear, patently infantile line of argument. but the Wikipedia citation proudly associated with it, because it protects his pre existing biases. and now we have come full circle, witnessing as we do here the conspiracy retards who do the same for global warming

-interlude of metii retardation!-

Vegans get all "high and mighty" about their feeding style but most actually kill as many or more living things than a more carnivorous human does. In fact, proximately, they kill more. I can kill one deer and eat on it for a month. A vegan, on the other hand, will kill and consume thousands of immature plants in that same time.


is he genuinely this stupid? more likely it's just the lazy osmosis effect I described above, but he could be. you decide!
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Goodspeed »

While it sounds silly out of context perhaps he was in the process of making the point that, from the perspective of life itself, there's no difference between a lifeform with a complex brain and one without.
But let's not get sidetracked.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by musketjr »

i agree, the tangent is a bit obnoxious (I just cant resist. it's the study-obsessed Wikipedia citation sticking by something so irrational and unscientific - it's perfectly absurd).

something clearly related to the topic is the problem of biased studies.

only last week this came out: http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/famil ... choices.3/

sugar industry sponsored studies. I hope we all grimace as we see this gross, fraudulent academic behaviour. and the same problem infects our climate science.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

Those who say that global warming is going to melt all the ice and and cause sea levels to rise and flood all of our cities oftentimes don't understand the big picture. They exclaim that if the Antarctic ice sheet melts, sea levels will rise 60 meters. However, is this really going to happen? Did you know that the Antarctic ice is actually increasing?

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/an ... rd-maximum

How can this be if global temperatures are rising? One reason is that runoff of meltwater from the continent is decreasing the salinity of the surrounding surface water enough so that it freezes more readily. Another is that higher global temperatures result in more evaporation and precipitation so it is actually snowing considerably more in the Southern Ocean.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/121648main_ais2.pdf

I'm just making the point here that the global climate is a complex system and oftentimes acts differently than we expect it to.

Speaking of sea level increases, even if the ice melts and sea levels rise, the doomsayers usually fail to mention that this will occur over several thousand years, thus giving humans plenty of time to adapt.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Gendarme »

Goodspeed wrote:
Gendarme wrote:The climate will be the same regardless of what we do,
Seriously?

Completely. It is somewhat surprising that you missed that thread, as you're fairly active and that thread was active for a long while.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Gendarme »

Metis wrote:I'm just making the point here that the global climate is a complex system and oftentimes acts differently than we expect it to.

This reminds me of something I thought of today.

When one person says "X works like this", and another person says "I don't know how X works, but what you're saying is wrong", people tend to go with the first person, merely because he has an explanation for X while the other one doesn't.

"You don't know the origin of the universe? Well, until you know, I'll stick with Jesus."

"You don't know what drives our climate? Stop saying that it's not CO2 if you don't have a better explanation yourself!"

"If it wasn't Russian hackers, then what was it, huh?"
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Metis wrote:Those who say that global warming is going to melt all the ice and and cause sea levels to rise and flood all of our cities oftentimes don't understand the big picture. They exclaim that if the Antarctic ice sheet melts, sea levels will rise 60 meters. However, is this really going to happen? Did you know that the Antarctic ice is actually increasing?

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/an ... rd-maximum

How can this be if global temperatures are rising? One reason is that runoff of meltwater from the continent is decreasing the salinity of the surrounding surface water enough so that it freezes more readily. Another is that higher global temperatures result in more evaporation and precipitation so it is actually snowing considerably more in the Southern Ocean.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/121648main_ais2.pdf

I'm just making the point here that the global climate is a complex system and oftentimes acts differently than we expect it to.

Speaking of sea level increases, even if the ice melts and sea levels rise, the doomsayers usually fail to mention that this will occur over several thousand years, thus giving humans plenty of time to adapt.


http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles ... ograph.htm

The Antarctic glaciers are still in retreat, just because there is more winter freezing does not mean it is getting colder or the ice is staying. The general trend is still receding. Take note of the dates of your articles please.

On a note of the salinity of the water, Antarctica in some places are particularity salty (although ofc != salinity). This is due to the freezing of water. My favorite place is Blood Falls, where an extreme amount of iron oxide is left in the solution. It doesn't even freeze anymore, and bacteria live there! Very fascinating.

While Global Warming may not melt the ice caps and cause a 60m swell etc, it is a significant risk to the environment. Even if it rises 4m, then it poses a threat to many major pacific and indian islands, such as the Maldives and Rarotonga. Whilst it is a complex system, surely you realizes that it does not mean we should neglect it. Global warming changes are subtle but can cause dramatic change.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Goodspeed »

Gendarme wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Gendarme wrote:The climate will be the same regardless of what we do,
Seriously?

Completely. It is somewhat surprising that you missed that thread, as you're fairly active and that thread was active for a long while.
I think I did see it but wasn't interested at the time. I'm still not, it's just that your statement stood out.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

Regardless of the occasional ice sheet breaking free, there is still a net increase in ice accumulation in Antarctica.

an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.


https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/na ... han-losses
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Metis wrote:Just because a chunk of an ice sheet breaks off doesn't mean that it is going to melt instantly. Ice sheets calve ice into the ocean all the time. In fact, the more snowfall and ice that accumulates the greater the rate of calving. There is still a net increase in ice accumulation in Antarctica.

an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.


https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/na ... han-losses


Ice accumulation does not mean it is not melting. Different areas need different levels of ice. Glaciers are extremely important for the environment.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

@JakeyBoyTH

Do you not understand what "net" and "accumulation" mean? Sure, Antarctic ice is melting but if there is a net accumulation then the ice is growing at a faster rate than it is melting, right?

Glaciers do play a role in global climate change but they play a greater role geologically and biogeographically. I could begin to explain why this is so but I'd say that most here would lose interest after the second or third post so it wouldn't be worth the effort. If you are really interested in the subject of global climate change, I suggest that you take one of the free mini-courses in environmental science that are available on the web.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

Her is a nice little lesson on the differences between the Arctic and Antarctic ice-wise.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/cha ... rence.html
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Metis wrote:@JakeyBoyTH

Do you not understand what "net" and "accumulation" mean? Sure, Antarctic ice is melting but if there is a net accumulation then the ice is growing at a faster rate than it is melting, right?


I don't want to turn This into an argument. I do know what those words mean, but different areas need different levels of ice. If you have a larger ice sheet, then thats great. However this does impact marine life to an extent. Glaciers are much more prominent in the environment however as they have a large reservoir of water, much more than the ice sheets.

Just because there is a net accumulation does not mean Antarctica is in great health at all.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

Metis wrote:Those who say that global warming is going to melt all the ice and and cause sea levels to rise and flood all of our cities oftentimes don't understand the big picture. They exclaim that if the Antarctic ice sheet melts, sea levels will rise 60 meters. However, is this really going to happen? Did you know that the Antarctic ice is actually increasing?

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/an ... rd-maximum

How can this be if global temperatures are rising? One reason is that runoff of meltwater from the continent is decreasing the salinity of the surrounding surface water enough so that it freezes more readily. Another is that higher global temperatures result in more evaporation and precipitation so it is actually snowing considerably more in the Southern Ocean.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/121648main_ais2.pdf

I'm just making the point here that the global climate is a complex system and oftentimes acts differently than we expect it to.

Speaking of sea level increases, even if the ice melts and sea levels rise, the doomsayers usually fail to mention that this will occur over several thousand years, thus giving humans plenty of time to adapt.


I have 2 wishes to you @Metis : (and some other ppl misreading the thread :shock: )
1. listen to the vids I posted when making this thread initianally
2. I want this thread to be about the way forward - not about if climate changes are happening OR not. There are other thread for that

after you have watched the vids - pls give me your hones thoughts on the way forward. I will take a good look at your opinions - when they are addressing the purpose of this thread. Please :santa: :santa:
I address this post special to you though Metis, cos I think you could have some thoughts on the issue of nuclear powers reactors from Thorium :!:
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by fightinfrenchman »

I agree nuclear power is the most practical way forward at the moment.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

iwillspankyou wrote:hones thoughts on the way forward.


Well, one thing that global warming is probably going to do is to open up the Northwest Passage to commercial sea traffic (one ship has already made it through without icebreaker support). Therefore, if you want to set up a legacy for your great-grandchildren you might consider investing in property for a seaport in northern Canada. Make sure to assess where the new sea levels will be because you want the land to be on the new coast, not the old one. Of course, this might not happen for several decades or perhaps centuries.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

Sorry @metis that was a disappointing answer. Take a look at my first vid where most catastrophic regarding weather is due to climate change. How will that turn out when the "north west passage" are free of ice. Its like you think all that ice melting, all that water going in to the atmosphere and the oceans, would not have any impact?
Imagine 10 or 100 times the weather catastrophes we addressed this year - imagine we cannot longer grow crops cos its all "gone by the wind". Imagine all coast cities are flooded with 100 times the magnitude of Cathrina to Louisiana!
This is pretty much the scenario ahead - if we cannot find a way to stop carbon/methane reacting the atmosphere :shock: :shock:
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by Metis »

iwillspankyou wrote:Imagine 10 or 100 times the weather catastrophes we addressed this year - imagine we cannot longer grow crops cos its all "gone by the wind". Imagine all coast cities are flooded with 100 times the magnitude of Cathrina to Louisiana!


I think that you may be watching too many disaster movies.
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Re: climate change - how to go forward

Post by spanky4ever »

Metis wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:Imagine 10 or 100 times the weather catastrophes we addressed this year - imagine we cannot longer grow crops cos its all "gone by the wind". Imagine all coast cities are flooded with 100 times the magnitude of Cathrina to Louisiana!


I think that you may be watching too many disaster movies.

could B, could also B that you are blindfolded :biggrin: and dont want to face the truth :shock:

So for one minute try to imagine that this is what is ahead! what can we do :?: :?:
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