Napoleonic Era

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Switzerland bobabu
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Post by bobabu »

[quote author="@tilanus" timestamp="1439720061" source="/post/39846/thread"][quote timestamp="1439686667" source="/post/39788/thread" author="@ovi12"]I think one of the biggest obstacle is people not wanting to learn so many new civs and dozens of new matchups. I remember when I moved to TAD I was playing it only for the new maps (the RE maps), I was annoyed at having all those new civs.[/quote]Never play WoL then, lol. :D :D
[quote source="/post/39796/thread" timestamp="1439691595" author="@bobabu"]Happily the fixed all those problems except balance. But a lot of people don't realize this. Now you can actually have napoleonic era installed and still play tad online. I tried to stream Napoleonic Era once but I always get a blackscreen on the stream. Maybe this should be fixed.
[/quote]Via twitch or how? Did the blackscreen have an error message or something? Could you elaborate on it pls? :)
[quote author="@jutlander" timestamp="1439696606" source="/post/39812/thread"]I really like NE, but if I had to choose, I think I'd give WoL a try.
I mean, don't get me wrong, but it's a mod, so IMO the idea of it is to change the game.

NE doesn't do much in that regard, it's just an expansion of some sort, and imba expansion, if I want a solid rts, I have TAD, which I play a lot.[/quote]Ah, don't worry, there'll come enough changes in the features that give the mod a completely new spin. There are different types of mods though, not every mod needs to be a total conversion to be enjoyable, some people like less change. :) NE started as expansion mod indeed, but we're about to leave that path.

On the other hand, WoL seems super flamboyant, I imagine myself having hours of just discovering stuff, but well, the mod still needs to come out.
Also, iirc, they can live patch stuff, so eventually it would get kind of balanced, regardless of having an absurd amount of civs of features.
Anyway, that's my two cents.

PS. Game is not released yet, so I may just be talking nonsense.[span] [/span]
We could do live patching too, but decided against it. If a patch is badly done, it can easily screw the game for everyone with no way back. Then nobody can play? They're not professionals after all (and even those manage to screw games with patches). Plus live patchingis an error-prone and tricky process of file transfer. It only sounds great when you hear it. I've played a lot of games with autopatchers, there's always something that doesn't work or goes terribly wrong.
As for WoL, it is indeed flamboyant and they're super hypey about everything they do. Don't expect a better balance though. NE might be imba for TAD standards (which isn't well-balanced in all regards either), but the features of WoL civs are at least structurally doomed to be imba and OP, because they do everything for the sake of uniqueness and teh lulz giving much less thought to potential balance threats when designing stuff than to the looks. In massive uniqueness and variety there lies huge imbalance, you know. There's a good reason why civs from AoE have always been streamlined to a certain degree. ')
[quote timestamp="1439702142" source="/post/39815/thread" author="@pounendo"]Played NE. Super unbalanced. I feel like some civs likes the poles would be op for treaty. I had 287/200 pop, and they literally have 3 extra resource upgrades. The italians have really expensive villagers that cost food and coin, and are limited in number unless you send a total of 6 shipments to max out in merchant pop. Haven't tried the rest of them, but it's still interesting to see all the new additions for sure!
[/quote]Yes, there is still obvious imbalance in the mod, but I wouldn't call the mod as a whole super unbalanced, that goes too far. NE is yet like this because the mod was not designed for a highly competitive audience in first place, but rather singleplayer at which it has always been very popular. Online players often underrate the actual size of the singleplayer scene, for example, the latest version has been released in November 2014 and since then made 47.000 DLs in total. If you set that into relation with online players, you'll see how many ppl play singleplayer and that's not surprising, because the AoE franchise has always been massively played in singleplayer. So that explains the current lack of fleshed out online balance. ^^

So I actually wouldn't be reliant on making the mod fit for multiplayer, but I very much care to receive feedback from competitive players like you in order to fix these things. Edeholland can approve my efforts. So yeah, I find the balance pretty hilarious myself at some points, but if you can come up with ideas how to fix it, I'm all ears![/quote]There was no error message. I recorded my monitor with Open Broadcaster Software. But on twitch you could only see a black screen. I don't have this problem with tad, nilla or twc.
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Post by yurashic »

NE looks nice and dandy, but there are serious issues with balance.

Swiss are completely broken. This civ combines bonuses of dutch, portuguese, ottoman and french from the start of the game. How crazy should a person be to make such mechanics? They can not make villagers from the TC, but start the game with 2 wagons and get 1 more wagon every time they age. These wagons automatically produce strong villagers similar to Coureurs and generate resources like banks. How can a person even imagine free cdbs from 2 tcs from the start of the game + 2 banks?

Even if they are so insane in the early game, why do they have only 50 villager limit and 150 pop cap? Why dont you do it normal?

Austrians are weird. Panzers are skirms that counter other skirms but dont counter HI, which is dumb. Line infantry are quite weak for their cost.

Hand canoneers are weird. Crossbowman/skirmisher with 10 range, 170 hp and 20% melee resist, where is logic? Why skirms have less range than muskets, hand resist and a lot of hp?

Maps have no resourses at all. You often start without a second hunt or with only 1 mine.

I like new natives, new civs and map ideas though.
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Post by pounendo »

get this though. I think the austrians (not 100%) have this tech that makes the trample mode super strong. I tried it out on one of there fully upgraded cav, and the cav don't lose speed or anything and attack was insane.. I don't really remember, but my god, mix in 100 strelets and its better then sex.
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Post by tilanus »

@bobabu: Have you tried adjusting the graphics options in NE maybe? Maybe it's because those are different to your TAD ones.

[quote source="/post/40308/thread" timestamp="1439812163" author="@yurashic"]NE looks nice and dandy, but there are serious issues with balance.

Swiss are completely broken. This civ combines bonuses of dutch, portuguese, ottoman and french from the start of the game.[/quote]
Yup, I know. Have it on my to-do, don't worry. ^^
How crazy should a person be to make such mechanics?

Not me. :D Seriously. I'm just the cleanup guy trying to improve and fix what needs it. I did not invent or code these civs. I see the potential NE has though to become a thoroughly balanced mod that can also be enjoyed in multiplayer. :)

The Swiss were the first civ of NE that was purely made out of fun, just for the sake of adding a Swiss civilization to the game. From that civ NE did evolve as a project. So it has a special place in the mod.

NE is a very old project, since 2005/2006 to be precise, which was neither developed by pro gamers like ZutaZuta nor with the premise to provide great multiplayer balance. The original idea was to expand AoE3 with new content for the sake of easy entertainment. In that regard NE is a much more polished mod than any other "theme mod" you may find for AoE3. It never was superbly balanced, but I'm willing to do that with all the help I can get from balance-versed players.

They can not make villagers from the TC, but start the game with 2 wagons and get 1 more wagon every time they age. These wagons automatically produce strong villagers similar to Coureurs and generate resources like banks. How can a person even imagine free cdbs from 2 tcs from the start of the game + 2 banks?

Even if they are so insane in the early game, why do they have only 50 villager limit and 150 pop cap? Why dont you do it normal?

The Swiss will be completely reworked, just like many other civs will change in a radical way. I completely agree the current civ concept is doomed to be OP.

Austrians are weird. Panzers are skirms that counter other skirms but dont counter HI, which is dumb. Line infantry are quite weak for their cost.

lol, Panzers :D Grenzers! Yeah, they are weird, but not much weirder than Coyote Runners or other LI units that were established to outsmart the counter system and conventions. It's an unorthodox unit, that's the point. Rather try to appreciate the use of it than rejecting it in a reflex against unusual innovations.
:flowers:

Hand canoneers are weird. Crossbowman/skirmisher with 10 range, 170 hp and 20% melee resist, where is logic? Why skirms have less range than muskets, hand resist and a lot of hp?

Who says skirmishers must have a wide range? It's about the utilization of unit boni and not your traditional reception of skirmishers. If you may allow I'd also like to point out that the historical units that served as an example for the AoE3 skirmishers did neither define them necessarily with long range shooting, but marksmanship, the ability to hit specific targets (what Musketeers were not trained in). Those units known as Jaegers, Chasseurs, etc. often wore rifles which were much shorter than muskets, which limited their range, but also increased their precision and mobility in forests in return. So you may see a flaw in a unit conception, that is historically perfectly fine. ')

So, the Arquebusier ("Hand Cannoneer") is an early, archaic, cost-efficient, slightly tanky unit that's good at killing HI such as pikes and muskets. How would you not wanna build that at a rush or counter?

Maps have no resourses at all. You often start without a second hunt or with only 1 mine.

I like new natives, new civs and map ideas though.

That's not true. Which and how many maps have you played so far? We are aware that the resource distribution is not optimal for multiplay, especially on some newer maps. Many were coded by RF_Gandalf though, someone who's regarded as one of the best map scripters ever. I take your compliment for the ideas though, which I think is worth something. We will keep improving the maps for sure. So if you could point out precise deficits on specific maps, I'd be glad to note these things and forward them to our map scripters.
:thumbsup:
Switzerland bobabu
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Post by bobabu »

[quote author="@tilanus" source="/post/40348/thread" timestamp="1439818727"]@bobabu: Have you tried adjusting the graphics options in NE maybe? Maybe it's because those are different to your TAD ones.

[quote timestamp="1439812163" source="/post/40308/thread" author="@yurashic"]NE looks nice and dandy, but there are serious issues with balance.

Swiss are completely broken. This civ combines bonuses of dutch, portuguese, ottoman and french from the start of the game.[/quote]Yup, I know. Have it on my to-do, don't worry. ^^
How crazy should a person be to make such mechanics?
Not me. :D Seriously. I'm just the cleanup guy trying to improve and fix what needs it. I did not invent or code these civs. I see the potential NE has though to become a thoroughly balanced mod that can also be enjoyed in multiplayer. :)

The Swiss were the first civ of NE that was purely made out of fun, just for the sake of adding a Swiss civilization to the game. From that civ NE did evolve as a project. So it has a special place in the mod.?

NE is a very old project, since 2005/2006 to be precise, which was neither developed by pro gamers like ZutaZuta nor with the premise to provide great multiplayer balance. The original idea was to expand AoE3 with new content for the sake of easy entertainment. In that regard NE is a much more polished mod than any other "theme mod" you may find for AoE3. It never was superbly balanced, but I'm willing to do that with all the help I can get from balance-versed players.

They can not make villagers from the TC, but start the game with 2 wagons and get 1 more wagon every time they age. These wagons automatically produce strong villagers similar to Coureurs and generate resources like banks. How can a person even imagine free cdbs from 2 tcs from the start of the game + 2 banks?

Even if they are so insane in the early game, why do they have only 50 villager limit and 150 pop cap? Why dont you do it normal?
The Swiss will be completely reworked, just like many other civs will change in a radical way. I completely agree the current civ concept is doomed to be OP.

Austrians are weird. Panzers are skirms that counter other skirms but dont counter HI, which is dumb. Line infantry are quite weak for their cost.
lol, Panzers :D Grenzers! Yeah, they are weird, but not much weirder than Coyote Runners or other LI units that were established to outsmart the counter system and conventions. It's an unorthodox unit, that's the point. Rather try to appreciate the use of it than rejecting it in a reflex against unusual innovations.
:flowers:

Hand canoneers are weird. Crossbowman/skirmisher with 10 range, 170 hp and 20% melee resist, where is logic? Why skirms have less range than muskets, hand resist and a lot of hp?
Who says skirmishers must have a wide range? It's about the utilization of unit boni and not your traditional reception of skirmishers. If you may allow I'd also like to point out that the historical units that served as an example for the AoE3 skirmishers did neither define them necessarily with long range shooting, but marksmanship, the ability to hit specific targets (what Musketeers were not trained in). Those units known as Jaegers, Chasseurs, etc. often wore rifles which were much shorter than muskets, which limited their range, but also increased their precision and mobility in forests in return. So you may see a flaw in a unit conception, that is historically perfectly fine. ')

So, the Arquebusier ("Hand Cannoneer") is an early, archaic, cost-efficient, slightly tanky unit that's good at killing HI such as pikes and muskets. How would you not wanna build that at a rush or counter?

Maps have no resourses at all. You often start without a second hunt or with only 1 mine.

I like new natives, new civs and map ideas though.
That's not true. Which and how many maps have you played so far? We are aware that the resource distribution is not optimal for multiplay, especially on some newer maps. Many were coded by RF_Gandalf though, someone who's regarded as one of the best map scripters ever. I take your compliment for the ideas though, which I think is worth something. We will keep improving the maps for sure. So if you could point out precise deficits on specific maps, I'd be glad to note these things and forward them to our map scripters.
:thumbsup:[/quote]


I'm using the same options. Does it work for you? If so can you tell me which recording program you use and which options ?
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Post by Papist »

ivan wrote:Americans should also be pretty good for treaty
200+ pop in villies.



Americans are basically a version of Russia. They have musk and rifle rider units that are insanely cheap and easy to spam.

I think Austria and Swiss are the most OP though. Austria has units that can multiply, and cheap villagers. Swiss have automatically spawning villagers that are like coreurs on steroids, plus military buildings that can be made mobile and moved.
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Post by tilanus »

papist wrote:Americans are basically a version of Russia. They have musk and rifle rider units that are insanely cheap and easy to spam.

Yes, it''s like Russia and France combined without the deficits. The spam ability will be kept, but the units are going to be nerfed.
I think Austria and Swiss are the most OP though. Austria has units that can multiply, and cheap villagers. Swiss have automatically spawning villagers that are like coreurs on steroids, plus military buildings that can be made mobile and moved.

Italians have the most OP eco so far. Edeholland will approve, he''s been writing a long, very detailed and helpful rant once. :D
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Post by pounendo »

[img][/img]check this out the swiss have insane op units.
[attachment id="1374" thumbnail="1"]
[attachment id="1377" thumbnail="1"]
[attachment id="1376" thumbnail="1"]
[attachment id="1375" thumbnail="1"]

the skirms also can use stealth and are faster then normal skirns, so with their insane attk and hitpoints they can kite everything all day.

and those musks!!!
Attachments
skirm.jpg
musk.jpg
fusilier.jpg
culv.jpg
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Post by tilanus »

Uh, those are Swedes, not Swiss (LOL). :D - And the royal guard flood will vanish. :)
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Post by noissance »

papist wrote:
ivan wrote:Americans should also be pretty good for treaty
200+ pop in villies.

Americans are basically a version of Russia. They have musk and rifle rider units that are insanely cheap and easy to spam.

I think Austria and Swiss are the most OP though. Austria has units that can multiply, and cheap villagers. Swiss have automatically spawning villagers that are like coreurs on steroids, plus military buildings that can be made mobile and moved.
In supremacy, the Americans are okay. However, in treaty, they are ridiculous, as miner spam beats almost everything. Add to that a 210 villie eco that gets u 4000-4700 score in a treaty 40 game mode, depending on map. They also have gattling guns which are also great, and also skirmishers that are better than frances with longer range. NE also introduced new units like the tabor (similar to a battering ram from aoe2), partyzants (archers that can transform into mounted mode for increased mobility), and the weird leather cannons (which counter cavalry by shooting the horses legs)

Swisss strength and weakness is their melee infantry, which are very dangerous one close, but can be kited. They also lack dragoons so u can hit/run with hussar. Sweden is only a threat on maps with chokepoints as their houses function as barracks, and the damage buff gets lost when u lose some of their houses (torps). Additionally, the torps generate wood which helps swedens 50 villager eco. The austrians have a great turtling capability with their keeps (age 2 fort-like buildings), but their walls cannot be upgraded. The only way to upgrade them is by shipping the extensive fortifications card.
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

Oh yeah, forget about the miner spam. Yep, Americans are broken for treaty.

As for sup, in my experience NE balance goes this way:
-Swiss.
It's not just their tanky villies which make coreurs look like pansies. It's not just the age 2 banks which can be moved around and train villies for free all around the map so you can easily get the most out of hunts and mines even in a low res maps.
Worst part is you can pull off anything with them and still win. They aren't just a boomy civ, their rush scary, their FF OP, and their FI is also beastly if you can pull it off (they got a card which makes all their units obtain guard status).

-Swedes
Swedish units are far too strong and their arty counters cav. Dutch on steroids with OP units (units themselves are ok, but Swedes get far too many upgrades).

-Poles
Overall got a mediocre design and are kinda mehish, but they are pretty buffed through age 1 and 2. Free outpost (wagon), free TP, an explorer which can raid, age with a Daimyo. Also a card which gives them hunting dogs and steel traps. I haven't played them that much but it seems their rush is too good.

-Italians
Harder to play, but their boom can pay off pretty good. Somewhat vulnerable to rushes.

-Americans.
They're kind like France balance-wise. In sup they are fairly balanced but their late game is pretty OP.

-Prussia
Prussia is tricky and requires micro because all their units heal by themselves. Tanky vills + uhlans make them pretty hard to raid too. But their boom is poor, so is their rush and unit composition.

-Austrians.
Grenzers are basically wood costing huss that get countered by huss. Austrians are made for turtle but get outboomed by other civs. Haven't played them that much but didn't like them so far. Didn't like their unit composition either.
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Post by gibson »

Anyone trying to get on and play some NE right now?
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Post by noissance »

I play NE quite often, my eso is same as on here

and afaik, swiss and italy are the best civs in supremacy in NE
Swiss can rush with 30 military units faster than iroq, can go to imperial under 10 mins (on some maps)
They also have very cheap pikemen that dont cost wood and get great siege.
Their military buildings can turn into wagons for 200 food
their market upgrades give bonuses to supply wagon gather rate
supply wagons can buy/sell crates instead of resources for a flat rate (unlike markets, where it increases.)

Italians on the other hand have a dangerous 5 min ff, excellent age 2 mercs, and moneylanding tech at market (pay 300 gold for 500 gold in crates later, and it increases)
They also get dragoon-like units in age 2, and condoterri mercs (weaker than cuirassier but cheaper)
Their villagers also gather much faster but cost 50% more (75f/g)
Their booming with moneylanding is pretty dangerous, and they even get guard crossbows
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Post by yurashic »

Have played a lot of NE recently with my friend and alone. Very happy with the mod. Lots of new features, fixes to the original game. Maps with new natives and treasures are just awesome!!!

However, there are balance issues and some bugs which can be solved without much problems IMO.

Swiss: this civ is a joke. Crazy early game because of early lots of free vills, horrible late game because of low vill count and lack of walls. I suggest making them start with 5 followers (like French) and only 1 supply wagon. Vill limit should be around 70. (70 followers = 87.5 vills + Swiss banking + supply wagons is about equal to normal 99 vills)
Their card "Alpine hunters" is bugged, it disappears from the deck after saving.

Austrians: they have 2 unique infantry units with lots of cards for them, but no fencing school shipment?

Polish: card that makes your cavalry faster and makes trample mode better is bugged. When you put it in your deck and save it, it turns into 13 Lyzovchic shipment.

Swedish: unbeatable military, bad eco. Torps should not boost their army, villager limit should be 75 or 80 (15 torps are like 12 extra vills in age 5).

USA: miners from artillery foundries are vills with no build limit. Remove them from foundries or make them a normal military unit.

Prussians: limit for military buildings makes them unplayable. You can't even delete them. I think those buildings should be like normal, but they should not grant units when you are at the pop limit.

Italians: card citizen militia is bugged, disappears after saving the deck

General: you can get 200 pop with civs that are not supposed to get it (Swiss, Italians, Swedish). Capitol tech allows to build 3 more TCs and the saloon upgrade gives 10 more pop.
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Post by iNcog »

What are the new features and fixes to the original game which you enjoy?
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

There are random tweaks here and there.
e.g. walls in NE have no LOS.
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Post by yurashic »

incog wrote:What are the new features and fixes to the original game which you enjoy?
Units that are usually not used were made viable. Outlaws, mercenaries and spies can be upgraded to imperial status. Every civilization has a tech which decreases artillery train time, which balances late game artillery wars. Additional arsenal upgrades. Fishing boats now cost 80 wood and schooners decrease the cost only to 50 wood from 80, which makes fishing viable with all civs and nerfs already existing water booms. On land maps warships are disabled so there are no monitors and frigates in ponds.

Universities offer interesting techs which are unique to each civilization and techs which are free, but increase something as well as decrease something.

New maps are from all over the world and look really cool. New natives on those maps often offer interesting new units like cavalry grenadiers, skirmishers with a very long range but no hand attack at all, musketeers with multipliers against explorers, mercenaries and natives, ninjas that can attack by throwing knives from range. New treasures were added as well - "Delicious Swiss chocolate worth 35 food", "Trapped swiss pikeman that will join the cause", "Bottle of Suvorov''s vodka worth 50 food" and many others. :)

New AI is much better. It utilises most possible units, upgrades them appropriately, makes better navy and does not spam cannons anymore.
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Post by momuuu »

How would a vodka bottle be worth 50 food?
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Post by gibson »

jerom wrote:How would a vodka bottle be worth 50 food?

Maybe the bottle actually has beef jerky in it?
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Post by yurashic »

Swiss supply wagons produce villagers after the player has revolted. Ridiculous. :D
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Post by alejandrote »

NE can be a really good mod, but our community is too small to split in 2. If only those treaty players would play the true game...
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

alejandrote wrote:NE can be a really good mod, but our community is too small to split in 2. If only those treaty players would play the true game...
Indeed. The few times I tried playing NE with certain clanmates, the treaty scrubs insisted they wouldn''t play if it wasn''t treaty.
Naturally I told them to stop being noobs and play aoe3 how it''s supposed to be played. Since they wouldn''t get a game going without me I joined and actually played treaty.
The game oosed at min 40... And at that point I realized I just wasted 40 mins of my life in a fucking treaty game - I literally wasted 40 mins in a game and not a single second was I having fun. I had a deep existential crisis that day and I sworn to myself I wouldn''t waste my time playing treaty ever again. It was sort of a life lesson.
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Post by cedarfarms »

im downloaded NE now, im about a 1st L/ captain in rank, anyone want to play some games?
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Post by Good ol Ivan »

cedarfarms wrote:im downloaded NE now, im about a 1st L/ captain in rank, anyone want to play some games?
Maybe tommorow, gotta sleep now.
I will be on between 8pm and 3am of the next day (GMT +0:00), nick Ivanelterrible

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