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Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 5909

14 Feb 2018, 17:25

Wout wrote:I'm pretty sure it will reject that. Your bets wont count if you have over 1000 betted. I just use a formula so that it can't go over 1000.
True in the recent events. Because Wout inadvertently found a way to cheat the limits, I added a check that lowers bets to the max amount (if they are over the max) in the script that closes bets.

I still haven't built in a check against overbetting, as in betting more points than you have. I haven't found this to be an issue in events I ran. But it's on my todo list.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
User avatar
Netherlands Wout
Skirmisher
Posts: 163
ESO: Wout
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 17:38

gee, it was never my intention to cheat or show bad sportsmanship guys.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

14 Feb 2018, 18:02

@Wout Even though the method is "legal" i think is really bad to use it, it just a way to try to win the money (more as steal in my mind :D), I mean of course it is fun to win but the betting is such fun when you see how many players is participating and see the different bets, I strongly disagree that this method should be legal becuase betting should be betted on the winning person (as you think) and not used with formulas and CPU calculations. As usual, it is up to @andypierce to decide if this is okay and if he will consider this a cheating and decide if your in or not :)
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

15 Feb 2018, 02:47

If there is something that presently needs attention, please let me know. Please let me know exactly what I need to change. I must admit being quite exacerbated by this thing over the last week.

Running our betting game requires what I understand to be a matter of some very basic computer commands. However, I have no experience whatsoever with code, so it is quite daunting for me. So setting up new players, setting up matches, closing betting, entering results, and processing things are tricky for me. I am sure for many of you, these things would be very easy. Unfortunately, I simply have never received any formal education in it (though Goodspeed has been super great and kind), so it feels very fuzzy for me. And sometimes I screw up and have no idea how to fix it. It's easy for me to say fuck it and close the window. That is not fair to you guys.

I apologize for closing bets too early last round. I apologize for closing bets too late this round. I did my best, but the world conspired against me. Last Thursday night, my 16-year-old buddy, who is a dog, got really sick and died Friday morning. The Carnage game was like 10 a.m. my time. I lost track of time and did not close the bets. I then was jolted back to earth by several of you complaining that people, many of whom were previously upset I closed bets too early, took advantage of the situation and bet on carnage after he had won. It takes an awful lot of clicking around and double checking and triple checking for me to identify what happened, be certain I am reading things right, and then figure out how to fix it. Again, this is a task that may be easy for many of you.

It is challenging for me to do this back end stuff normally, and it is especially challenging for me to it when there is even more to do because I need to undo bets. And it is even more challenging to do so while not resenting the people who created the hassle for me.

When I thought I was resetting bets yesterday and being a good sport, taking people at their word that they did not intend to cheat, that they inexplicably thought it was normal and part of the fun to screw around with their betting sheets at any given opportunity, I now understand that I made some errors and didnt treat all six of these people who cheated equally. Someone got more coins back. Someone got fewer. Some people who didnt cheat mentioned that somehow the odds shifted and they were adversely affected. I really dont understand exactly what is going on. Some folks here have some very strong opinions about this betting game. Unfortunately for all of us, I do not. I honestly don't give a fucking shit. I was asked to help by a friend, so of course I agreed. But I quickly got spooked by the task and never bought into the spirit of the game. But I know many of you have. That's awesome, and I hope I do not do something to squash it.

Please forgive me for feeling that every single fucking time I try to do or fix something, something else gets broken and someone has an opinion that I could have done better. Yes, I could have done better. Of course I could have. I have no fucking idea what I am doing. But I am doing my level best in good faith, which I wish were a standard to which we could hold everyone in this thread. I probably fucked things up and who knows if the best competitor will win.

I can assure you that next tournament, the betting will go much smoother. I have full faith in whoever steps up to take over.

[edits: some of the things I said came out poorly. sorry this reads like a 15-year-old's angsty diary.]
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

15 Feb 2018, 06:24

First of all Andy, thx for running this event and I want too say a few things.

1. You have done nothing wrong. Mistakes you are making i just a way to improve and getting better at being in charge.

2. When I posts things in this thread, it is only to make sure that you are aware of it and not to give you commands.

3. I fully understand your inactivity, you are also a human and you also have a life. And i am terribly sorry for your dog and hope that you recover fast from it

Lastly, THX for running this event and i am certain this will be a an awesome betting-event
No Flag chronojj
Musketeer
Posts: 80

15 Feb 2018, 06:39

it's not your fault man, don't blame yourself for the rotten cheaters who intentionally cheat then try to claim ignorance/blame it on you
as an outsider who plays this game only when there is a tourney, such behavior gives me zero incentive to stay, especially considering prominent members are the ones cheating. this community sucks.
Germany Carnage
AoE:O Team
Posts: 105
Game: AoE Online

15 Feb 2018, 16:15

ouch.
Austria UoPoko
Crossbow
Posts: 20
Game: AoE Online

16 Feb 2018, 09:53

@andypierce :
First: May care and love of those around you provide comfort and peace to get you through the days ahead. My most sincere condolences.
Second: I also don't think it was your fault. Some of those that changed knew exactly what they did as they were online in discord and knew the game was played ...
Third: it shouldn't even be needed to close the game on time, I'd expect those participating not to try to fuck it up. I'd have to agree with @chronojj , it is really a sad story.
Fourth: why did you edit out the best part of your post? ;-)

Ok, now to the helpful part!
- Match 1: TheMista vs cG_Carnage: no time to play has been set, I'll keep you updated if a time/date is agreed on and posted
- Match 2: cG_Zerton vs cG_Eery: this will take place on Wednesday 21st, 3pm GMT. So please close it by Tuesday 20th evening your time latest.
- Match 3: cG_Eery vs iamsoldier: this was a game of the winners bracket quarter finals and has already been played (viewtopic.php?f=449&t=13616) 3:0 for cG_Eery. Please close it as the game had happend before the round started.
- Match 4: GiveUAnxiety vs AresRTS: according to viewtopic.php?f=454&t=13647 AresRTS will not be able to play, maybe this game should also be closed.
- Match 5: iamsoldier vs Izeuzl: the game has already been played (viewtopic.php?f=472&t=13653) and iamsoldier won 3-1. So you can close it.

Hope this helps and saves you some time, I will try to keep this updated when I find any changes on the schedule and tag you.

Best
P.
Austria UoPoko
Crossbow
Posts: 20
Game: AoE Online

19 Feb 2018, 07:57

@andypierce : Update on Match 2: it has ben rescheduled to Wednesday 21st, 8:30 pm GMT.
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

20 Feb 2018, 01:11

OK. I will try to shut all bets tomorrow then. Thanks
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

21 Feb 2018, 00:03

As promised, betting is now closed.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

25 Feb 2018, 00:11

@andypierce update bets?
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

28 Feb 2018, 13:32

I gather there was another alleged incident of people changing bets. I am not certain of the details. At any rate, I have been asked to close up the betting tent for this season. So the betting is now over for the tournament. I am not sure if there is a winner or not. (I stopped betting after I had to make weird decisions last round or so, so I haven't even looked carefully at the standings.) I am sure the contest will get rebooted in some fashion for the next tournament. I think it is really cool to have a way for non-competitive community members (like me) be involved in the tournaments.
Germany Carnage
AoE:O Team
Posts: 105
Game: AoE Online

28 Feb 2018, 15:22

there will not be a winner. funds will return to the aoeo bank. im am sorry for the 2 or 3 people who were actually playing legit, but at this point its a neccessary decision. we will talk internally if there will be another betting game next tournament and if yes, what changes/ precautions wil have to be made so that such a pathetic display of a lack of sportsmanship will not repeat itself.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 5909

28 Feb 2018, 15:50

Before a potential next event I will have automated the removal of "overbets", this feature is currently being tested by the other running event (AoE3 Treaty) and will be added to the AoEO system as well.
I still cannot stop people from editing their bets if they are still open after a series has been played because it's impossible for the system to know when a series is played. And it's not at all trivial for me to make it easier for the admin to check and undo them. It's the admin's responsibility to close the bets on time, but this is not always possible because sometimes matches are played suddenly and sometimes the admin is not around to close bets on time. It's the players' (implicit) responsibility to not cheat and keep their bets the way they are despite knowing the result if bets were closed late.

And like last time the AoEO betting event was plagued with low participation which can mess up the system (in case there were no bets on the winning result, for example). Because the AoE3 event always gets plenty of participants the system is not very good at handling such exceptions. I will consider improving this, but I also think participation was lower than it could've been if it was marketed properly. Sad to see you guys had to cancel it but it's understandable at this point.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
Portugal Madlib
Crossbow
Posts: 11
Game: AoE Online

02 Mar 2018, 19:25

The only reason people cheated on carnage vs gua match was because they failed their bets and saw that they would go "bankrupt" in points, so they had nothing to lose on cheating. Actually what they have accomplish, was ruinning the entire betting tourney for everyone.


The ones that played fair and square, got punished at the end, by no-reward. lol

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