Tit vs Hazza54321

[Aykin Haraka]

[spoiler=Result]3-2 for Tit[/spoiler]

[Kynesie]

GGs all

[Aykin Haraka]

gg men

[lordraphael]

the only remaining question is how much did lag influence the result. Imo withtout lag result would have been 3-2 for hazza. Still gratz and wp tittie was a worthy opponent, but i dont think kynesie will be allowed in future tourneys, if i was admin i wouldnt allow it, just to much hassle, its unfair to every player who has to face him and its annoying for the viewers.( ignoring the fact that it still might be intentional,whhich i dont think, but would make any discussion about banning or not banning irrelevant. )
A classic one 1 < 100 decision.

[zoom]

Congrat's, and thanks to all players and staff.

[gibson]

Ez

[rsy]

They lost on purpose so kynesie could get better parts f or his comp

[deleted_user0]

lag op

[Bachscharfschütze]

well lagged

[Kickass_OP]

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

[Bachscharfschütze]

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

[Snuden]

GG's

[Radix_Lecti]

I watched a bit but what I saw was a bit unfair. If you consider some players would restart games with even the slightest instances of lag, then surely those games must have been incredibly annoying to play for the players. And that is a contributing factor to a win or loss.

[Googol]

They lost on purpose so kynesie could get better parts f or his comp

Parts f= Fish is good shit ?

[lordraphael]

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

do you have those thoughts becasue you lag just like kynesie ?

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

I see an interesting pattern, from previous tourneys and here again:
- On land maps (not just full with food etc, even klondike), which are the biggest part of the game map pool and competitive tournaments as well, other teams win like Ramex/Me did and Hazza/King.
- On water maps Tit/Kyn win. While Ramex/Me were not motivated enough to even try (sure, thats not good but another discussion), it seems Hazza/King did give it a try, but we have to agree Tit/Kyn abuse water well. Question is whether it should be like that with such (two?!) maps in the finals though, especially coinsidering the other rules such as forced counterpick and no veto option. Baja is still a decent map imo, but Indonesia is not competitive with current stats of ships.
- In the last game of the match, on a normal map even, for both Ramex/Me and Hazza/King, there is very conveniently huge lagg at crucial game-deciding moments. Ramex/My fight near their tc where we lost a lot of skirms and arrow knights. Same with Hazza/King where Hazza's canons suddenly go melee into the other's army. That is sometimes harder to see for viewers but very annoying for players not so used to that, as it messes things up.

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

If they are better, how do they 90% of the time get outplayed so hard by other good 2/2 teams, if its not a full water and/or lagg game?

[stronk]

I think kynesie and tit earned this win. They are definetely the better team on these maps.

[stronk]

I see an interesting pattern, from previous tourneys and here again:
- On land maps (not just full with food etc, even klondike), other teams win like Ramex/Me did and Hazza/King.
- On water maps Tit/Kyn win. While Ramex/Me were not motivated enough to even try (sure, thats not good but another discussion), it seems Hazza/King did, but we have to agree Tit/Kyn abuse water well. Question is whether it should be like that with such (two?!) maps in the finals though, especially coinsidering the other rules such as forced counterpick and no veto option. Baja is still a decent map imo, but Indonesia is not competitive with current stats of ships.
- In the last game of the match, on a normal map even, for both Ramex/Me and Hazza/King, there is very conveniently huge lagg at crucial game-deciding moments. Ramex/My fight near their tc where we lost a lot of skirm and arrow knights. Same with Hazza/King where Hazza's canons suddenly go melee into the other's army.

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

If they are better, how do they 90% of the time get outplayed so hard by other good 2/2 teams, if its not a full water and/or lagg game?

They didn't get outplayed in game 5 and the lag might have been hazza

[deleted_user0]

yesh, ofc it's hazza and not the team that every other team has had lag issues with! EP LOGIC!

[Kynesie]

I see an interesting pattern, from previous tourneys and here again:
- On land maps (not just full with food etc, even klondike), which are the biggest part of the game map pool and competitive tournaments as well, other teams win like Ramex/Me did and Hazza/King.
- On water maps Tit/Kyn win. While Ramex/Me were not motivated enough to even try (sure, thats not good but another discussion), it seems Hazza/King did give it a try, but we have to agree Tit/Kyn abuse water well. Question is whether it should be like that with such (two?!) maps in the finals though, especially coinsidering the other rules such as forced counterpick and no veto option. Baja is still a decent map imo, but Indonesia is not competitive with current stats of ships.
- In the last game of the match, on a normal map even, for both Ramex/Me and Hazza/King, there is very conveniently huge lagg at crucial game-deciding moments. Ramex/My fight near their tc where we lost a lot of skirms and arrow knights. Same with Hazza/King where Hazza's canons suddenly go melee into the other's army. That is sometimes harder to see for viewers but very annoying for players not so used to that, as it messes things up.

They won because they are better, always play 2v2. Lag was for everyone. There is no excuse gg wp.

If they are better, how do they 90% of the time get outplayed so hard by other good 2/2 teams, if its not a full water and/or lagg game?

I think we just used well rules ( 1 civ / team / BO ) .
First game versus you , you pick first 2 strong civ and we didn t wanted to use our main at this point. As result we get ofc outplayed on G1 but we have real civ advantage in G3. Moreover your team used india + russia for nothing on indonesia, both civs that would have been helpful on bengal..

About the last game versus king/hazza, it was always under our control, we have never been under pressure. We managed to keep 2 good civs for last game and king starting kami with a gold start was a bit suicide...

[enjoy2play]

lol they won the series, be fair and say gg.
how can u say they lost the game becasue of lag? are u serious or what? ofc there was lag, but to say thats the only thing because of that hazza lost his canons is bullshit. they just had way better civs in the last game on this map.

edit: also i dont get why players cant just accept that kynesie/tit are the best players on water maps. they won that series pretty fair, they won 2 games on water and hazza won 2 games on land. last match was decided by the MU imo. in the full series kynesie/tit were just better, so they earned that win of that series!
the question about the mappool is another one. but its not their fault if admins make a mappool in a final like this. but everyone being unfair and unfriendly against kynesie/tit is just shit.

[deleted_user0]

lol they won the series, be fair and say gg.
how can u say they lost the game becasue of lag? are u serious or what? ofc there was lag, but to say thats the only thing because of that hazza lost his canons is bullshit. they just had way better civs in the last game on this map.

edit: also i dont get why players cant just accept that kynesie/tit are the best players on water maps. they won that series pretty fair, they won 2 games on water and hazza won 2 games on land. last match was decided by the MU imo. in the full series kynesie/tit were just better, so they earned that win of that series!
the question about the mappool is another one. but its not their fault if admins make a mappool in a final like this. but everyone being unfair and unfriendly against kynesie/tit is just shit.

You are right. People should be more polite. So I will just say it for everyone :)

Well lagged!

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

@Kynesie:
- I never said you didnt use rules/civ combos bad. I think you did fine with that yes.
- Game 1 we had to first pick, so in fact you could have countered with any combo you wanted. But I can undestand you didnt want to use your main civs there Either way fre/rus isnt bad but our combo was better, true. However, you didnt play it right imo but thats another thing
- I disagree that you had a (big) civ advantage in G3. Fre/azz should be fine here and im happy to play that MU (without lagg) again.
- Your game 5 vs Hazza under control? Well, idk what your definition is of control. If you mean that suddenly a lot of lagg causing Hazza to obviously miscontrol his canons then sure I'd say you controlled that well ^^. If you dont see how much that mattered in the game and how long they dragged it out despite that loss AND that their civ combo is in fact perfectly fine to deal with yours later on, you really lack some 2/2 understanding here. Late game fre/jap is very likely to win vs lategame azz/india. One of the arguments was already pointed out by Kaiser on stream, the not ideal cav for azz/india team. Though perhaps you forgot, as using cav requires a game with not much lagg Your team did have a good raid on Hazza's TC on the right but still. I dont think that kami with gold start is bad per se, but that is debatable.

@enjoy2play / TvTotal:
- See my last point above, you clearly see this wrong. Yes the lost canons is indeed huge (thats why fre invested 2k in age up here) and yes the civ combo is perfectly fine late game. Its a funny similarity to my game. Yumi/musk/hus would be a fine combo IF you can micro decently. Idk what the reason was to age up, perhaps hoping canons would be able to do a better job in a laggy game...
- Please dont put words in my mouth. I said above that Tit/Kyn are very good on water maps. To say best, idk. I think for example if Raph/Roby/Prince play (and I prob if I really cared perhaps in a non-laggy game), they win water games as well.
- Obviously my dissapointment with the map pool is adressed to the admins not to Tit/Kyn. Im not being unfriendly, I am, as always, being realistic. And I was really frustrated with the lagg yes. Is that so hard to understand? People who micro more have more issues with lagg. Tit/Kyn do that less, so do you. Doesnt mean its not an issue for others.

[stronk]

@Kynesie:
- I never said you didnt use rules/civ combos bad. I think you did fine with that yes.
- Game 1 we had to first pick, so in fact you could have countered with any combo you wanted. But I can undestand you didnt want to use your main civs there Either way fre/rus isnt bad but our combo was better, true. However, you didnt play it right imo but thats another thing
- I disagree that you had a (big) civ advantage in G3. Fre/azz should be fine here and im happy to play that MU (without lagg) again.
- Your game 5 vs Hazza under control? Well, idk what your definition is of control. If you mean that suddenly a lot of lagg causing Hazza to obviously miscontrol his canons then sure I'd say you controlled that well ^^. If you dont see how much that mattered in the game and how long they dragged it out despite that loss AND that their civ combo is in fact perfectly fine to deal with yours later on, you really lack some 2/2 understanding here. Late game fre/jap is very likely to win vs lategame azz/india. One of the arguments was already pointed out by Kaiser on stream, the not ideal cav for azz/india team. Though perhaps you forgot, as using cav requires a game with not much lagg Your team did have a good raid on Hazza's TC on the right but still. I dont think that kami with gold start is bad per se, but that is debatable.

@enjoy2play / TvTotal:
- See my last point above, you clearly see this wrong. Yes the lost canons is indeed huge (thats why fre invested 2k in age up here) and yes the civ combo is perfectly fine late game. Its a funny similarity to my game. Yumi/musk/hus would be a fine combo IF you can micro decently. Idk what the reason was to age up, perhaps hoping canons would be able to do a better job in a laggy game...
- Please dont put words in my mouth. I said above that Tit/Kyn are very good on water maps. To say best, idk. I think for example if Raph/Roby/Prince play (and I prob if I really cared perhaps in a non-laggy game), they win water games as well.
- Obviously my dissapointment with the map pool is adressed to the admins not to Tit/Kyn. Im not being unfriendly, I am, as always, being realistic. And I was really frustrated with the lagg yes. Is that so hard to understand? People who micro more have more issues with lagg. Tit/Kyn do that less, so do you. Doesnt mean its not an issue for others.

Don't be so biased please. Kynesie and Tit definetely established control early on in game 5.

[enjoy2play]

huhm, why you think my points were adressed to you veni? i think it was more in general.

edit: maybe my post was a bit unlclear, my english sucks. i adressed my post to anyone who just say this win was only because of lag, like rapha said with the canons etc.