Is EP China too weak?

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China fei123456
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Is EP China too weak?

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Post by fei123456 »

I tried EP China a few days ago, and at around 10:00 the sheeps are stil not fatten lol.

changes:
lower herd fatten rate
no mamelukes in age 3
weaker old han reform
slower forbidden army

the 2nd one is a "bug fix", but the other three are all "nerfs".
goodspeed wrote in his guide 3.0 that "china is a weak civ". but after he lost to mongo10's china twice he decide to nerf china totally. ironic. and how he lost the two games? brit vs china, he choose to boom vc 200 pop on such a poor map, then 5v, then age up, and was killed before age 3. japan vs china, he goes 4v 4v 600g, and when china age 3 army were under his tc, he started to build golden pavilion. can this 2 games show china is an op civ?

i have to admit that china has strong age 3 timing, and old han reform is op too (though it rarely happens in 1v1). but chinese age 2 army are too weak, why isn't there any buff to them? when you nerf their cav and old han, you say "they're OP"; when you don't buff their colonial, you say "we don't want to change how we play this civ thoroughly". so isn't port 85f vill/sioux teepee "a thorough change"?
No Flag Zhanson10
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Zhanson10 »

Couprider wrote:I tried EP China a few days ago, and at around 10:00 the sheeps are stil not fatten lol.

changes:
lower herd fatten rate
no mamelukes in age 3
weaker old han reform
slower forbidden army

the 2nd one is a "bug fix", but the other three are all "nerfs".
goodspeed wrote in his guide 3.0 that "china is a weak civ". but after he lost to mongo10's china twice he decide to nerf china totally. ironic. and how he lost the two games? brit vs china, he choose to boom vc 200 pop on such a poor map, then 5v, then age up, and was killed before age 3. japan vs china, he goes 4v 4v 600g, and when china age 3 army were under his tc, he started to build golden pavilion. can this 2 games show china is an op civ?

i have to admit that china has strong age 3 timing, and old han reform is op too (though it rarely happens in 1v1). but chinese age 2 army are too weak, why isn't there any buff to them? when you nerf their cav and old han, you say "they're OP"; when you don't buff their colonial, you say "we don't want to change how we play this civ thoroughly". so isn't port 85f vill/sioux teepee "a thorough change"?

your grammar sucks ass but you have great points.

User was warned for this post.
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Great Britain britishmusketeer
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by britishmusketeer »

Couprider wrote:I tried EP China a few days ago, and at around 10:00 the sheeps are stil not fatten lol.

changes:
lower herd fatten rate
no mamelukes in age 3
weaker old han reform
slower forbidden army

the 2nd one is a "bug fix", but the other three are all "nerfs".
goodspeed wrote in his guide 3.0 that "china is a weak civ". but after he lost to mongo10's china twice he decide to nerf china totally. ironic. and how he lost the two games? brit vs china, he choose to boom vc 200 pop on such a poor map, then 5v, then age up, and was killed before age 3. japan vs china, he goes 4v 4v 600g, and when china age 3 army were under his tc, he started to build golden pavilion. can this 2 games show china is an op civ?

i have to admit that china has strong age 3 timing, and old han reform is op too (though it rarely happens in 1v1). but chinese age 2 army are too weak, why isn't there any buff to them? when you nerf their cav and old han, you say "they're OP"; when you don't buff their colonial, you say "we don't want to change how we play this civ thoroughly". so isn't port 85f vill/sioux teepee "a thorough change"?

1) Effectively starting with +200w on livestock maps makes china's power fluctuate a lot which makes them alot harder to balance.
2)randomly getting mams is the saloon needed to be fixed for obvious reasons.
3)old han reforms was too op but didn't make any difference to most games so nerfing it makes sense.
4)This barely matters?

td;dr On a non livestock map where you don't gamble 200w for a chance for a free win, china is basically the same as re.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

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Post by sudmakmak »

buffalo = buffalo.
stupid logic = stupid logic.
noob = noob.
you can't teach noob to smart.
ex, you can't teach buffalo. buffalo can't learn to human speak.
play other game. have more fun.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

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Post by Gichtenlord »

The legend
r]
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Garja »

Nah China is mostly fine. Just boring to play.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

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Post by n0el »

Zhanson10 wrote:
Couprider wrote:I tried EP China a few days ago, and at around 10:00 the sheeps are stil not fatten lol.

changes:
lower herd fatten rate
no mamelukes in age 3
weaker old han reform
slower forbidden army

the 2nd one is a "bug fix", but the other three are all "nerfs".
goodspeed wrote in his guide 3.0 that "china is a weak civ". but after he lost to mongo10's china twice he decide to nerf china totally. ironic. and how he lost the two games? brit vs china, he choose to boom vc 200 pop on such a poor map, then 5v, then age up, and was killed before age 3. japan vs china, he goes 4v 4v 600g, and when china age 3 army were under his tc, he started to build golden pavilion. can this 2 games show china is an op civ?

i have to admit that china has strong age 3 timing, and old han reform is op too (though it rarely happens in 1v1). but chinese age 2 army are too weak, why isn't there any buff to them? when you nerf their cav and old han, you say "they're OP"; when you don't buff their colonial, you say "we don't want to change how we play this civ thoroughly". so isn't port 85f vill/sioux teepee "a thorough change"?

your grammar sucks ass but you have great points.

Let's see your Chinese then? Bet couprider's English is 100000x better.


@britishmusketeer the sword nerf matters quite a bit. Now you have a choice, don't use cover mode and maybe be able to kill cav but get rekt by range faster or use cover mode and you can't kill cav only block longer. China was already extremely weak to cav and this "bug fix" makes it worse.
mad cuz bad
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Why care about china in age 2 when their cav can kite pikes and muskets in melee in age 3 EleGiggle
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by fei123456 »

They are all "small" nerfs, and don't hurt this civ much (like old han reform in 1v1); but many small nerfs may led to a big one. And it's annoying to see nerfs again and again, while no buffs to the significant weaknesses.
If forbidden army (flail+hammer) trains too fast, isn't territory army (sword+skirm) too slow? You always need two raxes to spam sword skirm combo, and as china trains units in batches they should train them faster.

My ideas:
1. Steppe rider HP 150 to 160.
2. Standrad army 3 ckn 2 steppe into 2 ckn 3 steppe.
(As no one plays chinese age 2, these won't "change too much".)
3. Add an age 1 shipment, "Chaos theory": you can train single-typed units, instead of flag batches.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by yurashic »

Garja wrote:Nah China is mostly fine. Just boring to play.


Heresy.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by yurashic »

sudmakmak wrote:buffalo = buffalo.
stupid logic = stupid logic.
noob = noob.
you can't teach noob to smart.
ex, you can't teach buffalo. buffalo can't learn to human speak.
play other game. have more fun.


Make this guy a moderator!
No Flag tedere12
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by tedere12 »

It already is 3ckn 2 steppe no?
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by yurashic »

tedere12 wrote:It already is 3ckn 2 steppe no?


I think he meant reverse.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by sudmakmak »

yurashic wrote:
sudmakmak wrote:buffalo = buffalo.
stupid logic = stupid logic.
noob = noob.
you can't teach noob to smart.
ex, you can't teach buffalo. buffalo can't learn to human speak.
play other game. have more fun.


Make this guy a moderator!


u play china often. and I seem your games. u will know, what problem for china. but If noob vs china lose? they don't know problem.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by sudmakmak »

Couprider wrote:They are all "small" nerfs, and don't hurt this civ much (like old han reform in 1v1); but many small nerfs may led to a big one. And it's annoying to see nerfs again and again, while no buffs to the significant weaknesses.
If forbidden army (flail+hammer) trains too fast, isn't territory army (sword+skirm) too slow? You always need two raxes to spam sword skirm combo, and as china trains units in batches they should train them faster.

My ideas:
1. Steppe rider HP 150 to 160.
2. Standrad army 2 ckn 3 steppe into 3 ckn 2 steppe.
(As no one plays chinese age 2, these won't "change too much".)
3. Add an age 1 shipment, "Chaos theory": you can train single-typed units, instead of flag batches.


?Buff Anti Cavalry? best problem for china. u can't shipment infinity.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by 666_X »

well Iro and otto were too strong on RE so china obviously had to be nerfed harder
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

china is fine i think, mediocre snipe, solid first pick, no real easy wins, no real hard defeats except vs brits and maybe russia.
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Gendarme »

...and India's howdah/surgeon stagecoach boom.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Garja »

I dont think Brits beat China really.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by yurashic »

umeu wrote:china is fine i think, mediocre snipe, solid first pick, no real easy wins, no real hard defeats except vs brits and maybe russia.


Also India and France.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

nah, those mus arent bad for china, even at worst, probably slightly in chinas favor with the right reaction to what those civs will do
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Dont germany beat them
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

germany is probably favored again since the uhlan nerf doesnt have affect anymore i think, though im not 100% sure on that, but it was never a very easy mu for germany. on a no tp map china wins, on a livestock tp map its probably 50/50, maybe even in favor of china and on a normal no livestock tp map its germany favored
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by Darwin_ »

Nerf their cav stats not training time imo.
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Re: Is EP China too weak?

Post by zoom »

Definitely not ā€“ it's fucking Chinese!

Then again, it is EP, I suppose...

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