Counter to Dutch EP?

[giveuanxiety]

I have always struggled vs Dutch, even on RE patch. A lot of people say dutch beats brit (obv some ppl will disagree and thats not what this is about). If your opponent picked first civ and they picked dutch, what civ would you use to counter pick his civ? and what strategy would you do

Also if you were to play brits how do you play vs dutch?

[deleted_user0]

brits counter everything. and theyve always been a solid pick to dutch. china is an option. i think iro is fine as well. im not sure about sioux, but its a close mu. some people say aztec beats dutch, though im not sure i buy that, i feel like dutch with cm cant lose to aztec. from previous tournaments we say russia did pretty good. on re japan was also a very hard mu for dutch, so on ep it should really be fair if not japan favored. then germany is decent, on re they couldnt lose, but now it think its rather close, but i dont play germany so not sure about that. and then there's spain which should do really well in this mu on EP as well, specially if its an atp map.

india, fre, otto and ports are really the only civs i would actively avoid vs dutch.

[deleted_user]

[nvm i hit back enough on my browser to come back to here]

Varying debate about this MU (brit vs dutch). I like agressive lbow/pike into lbow/huss much like you would vs Japan. It's had reasonable success vs. pretty decent players tbh. Make sure in-base herding is on point to minimize the risk of raiding though. Better players than I like Mitoe would probably just try to out-huss easily in age 2 and out boom and overwhelm in age 3. The idea being that dutch has to invest a lot of resources into banks that you can abuse that. That's really what it boils down to. This civ in order to win after 10 min has to invest 1.950 resources (650*3) or more to remain competitive and that can and should be abused somehow.

Dutch is unique though in that they can often hold those aggressive musk rushes better than most civs due to their age 2 skirms and 8 pike and 3 huss shipments. Just kind of, idk, beat em.

Or you can mirror.

[Mitoe]

IMO, almost every civ can beat Dutch on EP, but I don't feel like going into detail at the moment.

[deleted_user]

IMO, almost every civ can beat Dutch on EP, but I don't feel like going into detail at the moment.

This makes sense. We don't want to detract from you finishing that Germany guide.

[Mitoe]

What if I said I actually worked on it recently?

[deleted_user0]

What if i said the world is flat?

[JakeyBoyTH]

India is the civ to beat Dutch or any civ. Urumi are especially powerful.

[deleted_user]

What if i said the world is flat?

"I'd say their arguments are intellectually stimulating and I could see the merit in it if not completely factual interesting nonetheless" -Jerom

"I'd say of course, dummy. The meat industry is spreading round earth propaganda in order to propagate their own self interest." -Hollowingwolfpaw

"Read some studies, m8" -Most everyone else

[ItachitheBest]

IMO, almost every civ can beat Dutch on EP, but I don't feel like going into detail at the moment.

--> dutch buff pls

[NamikazeMinato]

@ItachitheBest - Narutothebest :)

[tedere12]

germany obviously.
Imo as brit do a 5 hus semi ff (700w 600w 5v) and then ship cannons immediately and push. You will have 10 hus and a lb mass and make goon lb as soon as you age up (9:30-10:00). Dutch can't punish that because by the time they mix enough hus you will have a lot of goons. You are taking down their banks and reinforcing and at the same time having a stronger eco and army, pretty hard to lose this way.

[born2believe]

What if I said I actually worked on it recently?

Ha ha.

[momuuu]

I think spain is an incredibly solid pick. Brits should do well but I feel like if dutch has perfect information it can be close. But thats also if Dutch plays it really well and the brit player doesnt. I think most civs can do well anyways. France is the worst maybe, although it might feel like that because thats one of my best mus personally. Germany should be a good match up still.

[pecelot]

germany obviously.
Imo as brit do a 5 hus semi ff (700w 600w 5v) and then ship cannons immediately and push. You will have 10 hus and a lb mass and make goon lb as soon as you age up (9:30-10:00). Dutch can't punish that because by the time they mix enough hus you will have a lot of goons. You are taking down their banks and reinforcing and at the same time having a stronger eco and army, pretty hard to lose this way.

So you make 5 huss and let Dutch boom on their own with your slow FF?

[tedere12]

germany obviously.
Imo as brit do a 5 hus semi ff (700w 600w 5v) and then ship cannons immediately and push. You will have 10 hus and a lb mass and make goon lb as soon as you age up (9:30-10:00). Dutch can't punish that because by the time they mix enough hus you will have a lot of goons. You are taking down their banks and reinforcing and at the same time having a stronger eco and army, pretty hard to lose this way.

So you make 5 huss and let Dutch boom on their own with your slow FF?

yes, if they do a slow ff they die to falcs

[pecelot]

I meant Brit slow FF, Dutch can be quick with no pressure.

[tedere12]

I know, if dutch boom hard in age 2 they get to age 3 late (after 9 mins). If they don't they have to ship 1000w first but then they have no shipment to defend to falcs. If they dont do any of those, then they can't match the british mass (which is better since lb>skirm)

[zoom]

EP Ports!

[lemmings121]

Acording to elo stats, the worst mu in re is dutch vs spain. I would say in EP its still spain a good pick

[Hazza54321]

Spain brit german ports aztec are good

[knusch]

yeah dutch bad, need back those 300/300 banks or maybe a free bank for every age up

[Garja]

Spain brit german ports aztec are good

Ye those are the civs that prob have best win rate but pretty much every civ marginally beats dutch on current EP.

[gibson]

Lol Dutch doesn't beat brit, but Spain beats dutch harder than brit does. You can do any ff varient and basically just right click

[Darwin_]

Japan has worked well for me. Dutch has nothing to deal with yumi except huss (which die easily) and cannons (which are expensive and the jap guy can just make 5 yabusame and be all gud). From my experience, Japan can go full boom and be up around the same time as dutch but with way more units, or they can just go industrial and beat them with 2x 16 yumi and 2x 14 ashi. Also doing a pike semi seems quite awkward for dutch if they want to do full banks, as they need to buy or chop wood from somewhere which just slows down their age time even more.