Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

United States of America cedarfarms
Dragoon
Posts: 237
Joined: Jun 13, 2015
ESO: Cedar_farms_

Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by cedarfarms »

What are your guys thoughts on maybe buffing all hero units vs native american warriors?
Maybe giving heros a x2 damage or x2.5 vs natives as a way to combat the lame dominance one player can get over another by simply having a scout or by getting a native warrior tres early in age one.
User avatar
New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast :P
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Lübeck

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

  • Quote

Post by Lukas_L99 »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast :P


Yes, I'm always playing tr on the ESOC patch
User avatar
New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
Howdah
Posts: 1744
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
ESO: Ex-Contributor
Location: New Zealand

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast :P


Yes, I'm always playing tr on the ESOC patch

japan might be more balanced
Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk

Ugh Advanced Wonders suck

- Aizamk
User avatar
Australia Timba
Skirmisher
Posts: 118
Joined: Jun 12, 2017
ESO: Timba_
Location: Straya

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Timba »

I think the European explorer crack-shot is enough of a one-up against converted native warriors.

Separate question: can a native warrior from a treasure (like an Iroquois tomohawk) be crack-shotted?
The best moment I've ever seen in AoEIII: youtu.be/LuMcFUjt6zQ?t=12m
User avatar
Kyrgyzstan AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE
Lancer
Posts: 548
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
ESO: dats my secret
Location: Ze King in Zeken's House of Zekers

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

Timba wrote:Separate question: can a native warrior from a treasure (like an Iroquois tomohawk) be crack-shotted?


no, still i think its not that OP.
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Darwin_ »

Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
Kyrgyzstan AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE
Lancer
Posts: 548
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
ESO: dats my secret
Location: Ze King in Zeken's House of Zekers

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.


you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Darwin_ »

AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.


you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...

Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
Kyrgyzstan AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE
Lancer
Posts: 548
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
ESO: dats my secret
Location: Ze King in Zeken's House of Zekers

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

Darwin_ wrote:
AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.


you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...

Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.

no, but in a 2v2 you probably build your front base together, which means you theoretically have 2 explorers available and at least 4-6 vills at the FB (at least 2 per player), in which case it is incredibly easy to rek 2 native warrios with the hand combat of villagers and explorers combined.

idk, maybe it is different on lower skill levels, but in my 12 years of aoe3 i cant remember any game where a native scout stopped me from building a FB, they are just a bit annoying, but if you guys want a nerf, cool idc (minute men have prevent FBs for me though..), i can imagine tho that on lower levels ppl dont know how to micro their vills into hand combat and snare the native warrior with the explorer, so it might be a problem..
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Kaiserklein »

Lol native scout is nothing obviously... But you wont kill the inca guy or some other nats easily wit just vils and explos. Plus some civs need to TP or have bad explorers, which means they can't even fight the nats.

On topic, I think a multiplier against vils would be nice, because it's dumb to be able to deny a forward base just because of luck. Someone calling minuteman takes a risk because mm are really valuable, but getting a nat treasure is just lame and lucky.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Darwin_ »

AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:
AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...

Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.

no, but in a 2v2 you probably build your front base together, which means you theoretically have 2 explorers available and at least 4-6 vills at the FB (at least 2 per player), in which case it is incredibly easy to rek 2 native warrios with the hand combat of villagers and explorers combined.

idk, maybe it is different on lower skill levels, but in my 12 years of aoe3 i cant remember any game where a native scout stopped me from building a FB, they are just a bit annoying, but if you guys want a nerf, cool idc (minute men have prevent FBs for me though..), i can imagine tho that on lower levels ppl dont know how to micro their vills into hand combat and snare the native warrior with the explorer, so it might be a problem..

Lol this isnt a low level thing at all. I have heard very high level team players (the vici, hazza, etc) complain about stuff like this before all the time. Also, if you do what you suggested, you will most likely lose at least one villager, not to mention that your buildings arent even constructed yet.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Garja »

Just remove snare and it's fine.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Dsy »

They are ok, no need to nerf. Getting 100w if you have another 100 from crates is much bigger and noone complains because its fine.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Kaiserklein »

You don't just get a 100w like that. On most maps you don't even have that kind of treasure, and anyway it's usually pretty risky to take. Native treasures are usually really easy to pick, and you often get a lot of value out of them. 100w usually brings a nice advantage, but nats can pretty much be game changing, for example by denying a tp or a fb.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Dsy »

But even if you play a civ which needs tp you can be the one who picks it up, so i dont see a problem... Its allowed to take by both players.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Hazza54321 »

0.5 or 0.3x vs vills is good, maybe make seige damage vs buildings in construction phase x2 instead of x4 from a nat warrior if thats possible
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Kaiserklein »

Dsy wrote:But even if you play a civ which needs tp you can be the one who picks it up, so i dont see a problem... Its allowed to take by both players.

But the most op nats, like nootka or inca, usually spawn only once on the map, so one lucky player will get it and the other not.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Garja »

nootka and inca have the snare, otherwise one could try to kill it with ranged explorer
Image Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Kaiserklein »

Also inca guy just has broken stats, especially the siege
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by deleted_user0 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Lol native scout is nothing obviously... But you wont kill the inca guy or some other nats easily wit just vils and explos. Plus some civs need to TP or have bad explorers, which means they can't even fight the nats.

On topic, I think a multiplier against vils would be nice, because it's dumb to be able to deny a forward base just because of luck. Someone calling minuteman takes a risk because mm are really valuable, but getting a nat treasure is just lame and lucky.


treasures are just luck in general, 125 or 140 food can be just as broken as incan warrior, depending on mu.
User avatar
Kyrgyzstan AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE
Lancer
Posts: 548
Joined: Apr 23, 2016
ESO: dats my secret
Location: Ze King in Zeken's House of Zekers

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

removing any possible random event like a good treasure that gives an advantage for one player doesnt seem like a way to make this game more fun, but idc anyway. is there any tournament stream/video/replay where a native warrior actually prevented a FB ? i would like to watch that..
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Kaiserklein »

umeu wrote:treasures are just luck in general, 125 or 140 food can be just as broken as incan warrior, depending on mu.

Honestly I can't think of many match ups where a food treasure would be as impactful as an inca guy. In most match ups you need to build either a forward base or a TP, and if there's already a TP built, inca + explo can burn it down in just 2 minutes. Then yeah if you're brits or dutch for example, I guess the inca is not as big of a deal, though it's still a good unit in age 2 and it can kill explorer and deny treasuring. Really depends on how early you get him.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by deleted_user0 »

its quite influential in mirrors. being up 1 vil faster for example can really snowball. incan can kill an explorer sure, and it can deny tp, but actually if he gets it early, you should know he has it, and adapt accordingly. if you micro properly, a full hp explorer can still stand vs an inca, if you use 1 vil to melee, your going to be ok. maybe 140 is not as influential as an inca warrior, but its not a huge difference, and both are often in a big part luck, whether you get it or not. despite what scout enthusiasts such as mitoe and h2o claim. if 150w or incan warrior spawns in front of your tc, it doesnt really matter what the scouting pattern of your opponent is.
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors

Post by Dsy »

I think japan with wood start + 140 food you can click on age 2:20-2:30. Id say thats better than an inca. So its mu dependent.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV