Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
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Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
What are your guys thoughts on maybe buffing all hero units vs native american warriors?
Maybe giving heros a x2 damage or x2.5 vs natives as a way to combat the lame dominance one player can get over another by simply having a scout or by getting a native warrior tres early in age one.
Maybe giving heros a x2 damage or x2.5 vs natives as a way to combat the lame dominance one player can get over another by simply having a scout or by getting a native warrior tres early in age one.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast
Yes, I'm always playing tr on the ESOC patch
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Lukas_L99 wrote:JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think Portugal would get very silly in treaty very fast
Yes, I'm always playing tr on the ESOC patch
japan might be more balanced
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
I think the European explorer crack-shot is enough of a one-up against converted native warriors.
Separate question: can a native warrior from a treasure (like an Iroquois tomohawk) be crack-shotted?
Separate question: can a native warrior from a treasure (like an Iroquois tomohawk) be crack-shotted?
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Timba wrote:Separate question: can a native warrior from a treasure (like an Iroquois tomohawk) be crack-shotted?
no, still i think its not that OP.
Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.
you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...
Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.
you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...
Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Darwin_ wrote:AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:Darwin_ wrote:Why not just give nat treasures a .25x multiplier vs. villagers or something. Most of the issues I see with native treasures is that they deny forward bases too easily in 1v1 and team games.
you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...
Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.
no, but in a 2v2 you probably build your front base together, which means you theoretically have 2 explorers available and at least 4-6 vills at the FB (at least 2 per player), in which case it is incredibly easy to rek 2 native warrios with the hand combat of villagers and explorers combined.
idk, maybe it is different on lower skill levels, but in my 12 years of aoe3 i cant remember any game where a native scout stopped me from building a FB, they are just a bit annoying, but if you guys want a nerf, cool idc (minute men have prevent FBs for me though..), i can imagine tho that on lower levels ppl dont know how to micro their vills into hand combat and snare the native warrior with the explorer, so it might be a problem..
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Lol native scout is nothing obviously... But you wont kill the inca guy or some other nats easily wit just vils and explos. Plus some civs need to TP or have bad explorers, which means they can't even fight the nats.
On topic, I think a multiplier against vils would be nice, because it's dumb to be able to deny a forward base just because of luck. Someone calling minuteman takes a risk because mm are really valuable, but getting a nat treasure is just lame and lucky.
On topic, I think a multiplier against vils would be nice, because it's dumb to be able to deny a forward base just because of luck. Someone calling minuteman takes a risk because mm are really valuable, but getting a nat treasure is just lame and lucky.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:Darwin_ wrote:AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:you are either a real man and send 3 vills for a forward base, in which case a native warrior isnt a big deal, or you deserve to loose your fb to a native warrior or minute men, which is usually followed by a pathetic "gg out" at 4min into the game.. if you are trying to rush, do it the fucking right way...
Have you ever played a 2v2 where the opponents get like 2 nat treasures and you guys cant get any? I implore you to try to fb in a situation like that.
no, but in a 2v2 you probably build your front base together, which means you theoretically have 2 explorers available and at least 4-6 vills at the FB (at least 2 per player), in which case it is incredibly easy to rek 2 native warrios with the hand combat of villagers and explorers combined.
idk, maybe it is different on lower skill levels, but in my 12 years of aoe3 i cant remember any game where a native scout stopped me from building a FB, they are just a bit annoying, but if you guys want a nerf, cool idc (minute men have prevent FBs for me though..), i can imagine tho that on lower levels ppl dont know how to micro their vills into hand combat and snare the native warrior with the explorer, so it might be a problem..
Lol this isnt a low level thing at all. I have heard very high level team players (the vici, hazza, etc) complain about stuff like this before all the time. Also, if you do what you suggested, you will most likely lose at least one villager, not to mention that your buildings arent even constructed yet.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
They are ok, no need to nerf. Getting 100w if you have another 100 from crates is much bigger and noone complains because its fine.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
You don't just get a 100w like that. On most maps you don't even have that kind of treasure, and anyway it's usually pretty risky to take. Native treasures are usually really easy to pick, and you often get a lot of value out of them. 100w usually brings a nice advantage, but nats can pretty much be game changing, for example by denying a tp or a fb.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
But even if you play a civ which needs tp you can be the one who picks it up, so i dont see a problem... Its allowed to take by both players.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
0.5 or 0.3x vs vills is good, maybe make seige damage vs buildings in construction phase x2 instead of x4 from a nat warrior if thats possible
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Dsy wrote:But even if you play a civ which needs tp you can be the one who picks it up, so i dont see a problem... Its allowed to take by both players.
But the most op nats, like nootka or inca, usually spawn only once on the map, so one lucky player will get it and the other not.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
nootka and inca have the snare, otherwise one could try to kill it with ranged explorer
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Also inca guy just has broken stats, especially the siege
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
Kaiserklein wrote:Lol native scout is nothing obviously... But you wont kill the inca guy or some other nats easily wit just vils and explos. Plus some civs need to TP or have bad explorers, which means they can't even fight the nats.
On topic, I think a multiplier against vils would be nice, because it's dumb to be able to deny a forward base just because of luck. Someone calling minuteman takes a risk because mm are really valuable, but getting a nat treasure is just lame and lucky.
treasures are just luck in general, 125 or 140 food can be just as broken as incan warrior, depending on mu.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
removing any possible random event like a good treasure that gives an advantage for one player doesnt seem like a way to make this game more fun, but idc anyway. is there any tournament stream/video/replay where a native warrior actually prevented a FB ? i would like to watch that..
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
umeu wrote:treasures are just luck in general, 125 or 140 food can be just as broken as incan warrior, depending on mu.
Honestly I can't think of many match ups where a food treasure would be as impactful as an inca guy. In most match ups you need to build either a forward base or a TP, and if there's already a TP built, inca + explo can burn it down in just 2 minutes. Then yeah if you're brits or dutch for example, I guess the inca is not as big of a deal, though it's still a good unit in age 2 and it can kill explorer and deny treasuring. Really depends on how early you get him.
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Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
its quite influential in mirrors. being up 1 vil faster for example can really snowball. incan can kill an explorer sure, and it can deny tp, but actually if he gets it early, you should know he has it, and adapt accordingly. if you micro properly, a full hp explorer can still stand vs an inca, if you use 1 vil to melee, your going to be ok. maybe 140 is not as influential as an inca warrior, but its not a huge difference, and both are often in a big part luck, whether you get it or not. despite what scout enthusiasts such as mitoe and h2o claim. if 150w or incan warrior spawns in front of your tc, it doesnt really matter what the scouting pattern of your opponent is.
Re: Thoughts on explorer multiplier vs native warriors
I think japan with wood start + 140 food you can click on age 2:20-2:30. Id say thats better than an inca. So its mu dependent.
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