Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

zoom wrote:ez. ezgoat
Well, that settles it. China's getting a goat. :chinese:
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

@EAGLEMUT When do you think the new patch version will be out? I am very excited for new maps.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

@Darwin_ I'm expecting the bulk of stuff to be finished over this weekend, then we test for a couple days while fixing remaining stuff and then release. This will probably be a bigger release than EP3 in the amount of general changes and new features/content.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Dsy »

Saw discussing china random crate stuffs.
Sadly noone mentioned the fixed crates for all civs which is superior over these random increase or decrease winrates based on your luck. I guess its because the idea comes from Diaruga. Poor guy has too many enemies...:)
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Goodspeed »

Fixed crates for all civs was considered last year, but we decided against it because there was too much passionate opposition. Not because we don't like Diarouga, who certainly wasn't the first or the only one to think of this. Do you really think we would be that petty?

There were a couple of threads about it on the internal EP forums and one public poll Diarouga posted: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9011
Poll votes are 59% in favour. The patch team was about 50-50 split on it. I wanted at least 60% approval from the community to even consider it because some people were very passionately against it; we would've lost players. I also see their point: while it makes balancing the game easier, it hurts variety. Also it's a very big change, would turn balance up on its head and therefore undo some of our work.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by deleted_user »

At a certain point the nature of the game should be preserved. Random crates are AoE3.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Dsy »

I was joking about Diarouga. However the fixed crates idea is still very good. Variety shouldnt come with random factors which decreasing the balance aspects. There are other nondestructice options to reach variety.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by zoom »

Goodspeed wrote:... Do you really think we would be that petty?

...
Do you really think you wouldn't?

P.S. Stop referring to yourself in third person. You disgust me.

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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

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Post by zoom »

deleted_user wrote:At a certain point the nature of the game should be preserved. Random crates are AoE3.
Your mom is AoE3. She's fucking hot, though.

User was banned for this post and the post above for a duration of one week. Reasons: Flaming and using offensive/inappropriate languages.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by n0el »

deleted_user wrote:At a certain point the nature of the game should be preserved. Random crates are AoE3.

If only there was a down vote button.
mad cuz bad
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by deleted_user »

n0el wrote:
deleted_user wrote:At a certain point the nature of the game should be preserved. Random crates are AoE3.

If only there was a down vote button.

If only there was a down vote button.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Dsy »

So basicly german can start with 300f 100w = 557 vs
Other time german start with 300f 200w = 757 vs

So basicly if you are lucky you can have 35% stronger start than if you arent...

Its something like in cs some times you can start with 1080 gold in the first round.
Or in lol you could start with 675 gold in the beginning if you are lucky.

Im just asking myself: "Do these EOSC patch guys want to make a competitive game? Or maybe im just wrong and its not even the goal"
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Goodspeed »

Well it's relatively okay because all civs in a game start with the same random crates. Except China. Which we do want to fix, but we're postponing it for now.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Atomiswave »

I like proposed changes, except removing Old Han cost. I think it's part of China uniqueness to pay for mentioned card. Maybe reducing price in correspondence with nerf is better solution. For example, reducing nerf to 25 percent and setting its price to 750f.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by ssaraf »

I don't really like the fixed crate idea tbh. The thing is with a random crate u get to create builds (tp or not , market or not , just a house etc etc) and are forced to think from the 1st minute. Welcome to RTS :? :lol:
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by ssaraf »

Also, I dint like the TC to 400w idea bcoz it would be too cheap (its sooo cheap that i mean a CM TC can be deleted and remade in a loop for the benefits :P). Spamming TCs like outpost (delete previous and put new one on the next hunt/coin can be a thing. Idk, maybe more retarded options possible. Also, It would disrupt team-game balance.

Also, someone said a buff to grenadiers or artillery in general. So making an AF can actually be viable and we can have interesting contests between the mobile armies and the heavy artillery based armies (games with base trades are interesting af :D ). I m pretty sure the culverin cost reduction is coming (i like that), looking for the patch team to explore further ideas in the artillery area.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

I think a cool way to balance crate starts would instead of the game calculating the random crate(s) as the game loads, it instead chooses from like 3 set crate starts for each civ, each ranked in terms of power. lets say the patch team makes the three possible crate starts for india 400w/300f, 400w/200f, and 300w/200f: ranked 1, 2, and 3 respectively; and dutch's crate starts 400c/200w, 400c/100w/100f, and 400c/100w: again ranked 1, 2, and 3.

So when the game loads, instead of choosing whether there what the random crate will be (which in this matchup is incredibly imbalanced), it would choose which of their crate starts they would get, i.e. 1, 2, or 3.

This would result in much more balanced crate starts in matchups like this where the random crate can cause large imbalances, but it would also allow for more finely tuning and balancing starts (take germany for example, this crate system would allow for them to never start with 200 wood, but always start with 100 wood, unlike the current system where that just isn't possible. Same thing for iro (always give 100 wood), or japan (always give 300 wood))
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Goodspeed »

That's a good idea, though I don't think it's necessary. The game's pretty decently balanced with random crates. At some point we just have to accept that balance is not going to get better. We have 14 civs and it's impossible for balance to be so close that a change like that is warranted imo.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

Goodspeed wrote:That's a good idea, though I don't think it's necessary. The game's pretty decently balanced with random crates. At some point we just have to accept that balance is not going to get better. We have 14 civs and it's impossible for balance to be so close that a change like that is warranted imo.

Yeah I totally agree. I think that my idea really only solves an issue that's present with maybe 5 civs (ger, china, jap, dutch, india), but beyond those civs random crates are pretty balanced. I think my issues with random crates mostly are with TAD, as the current system makes total sense with vanilla and twc, where every civ benefits about the same from each random crate. It's really only due to the TAD civs and 200 wood trading posts that we are really even talking about crates.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Dsy »

Hmm. Only those civs make difference with random crates?
Aztec: If it starts with 300w they will rush faster though they dont need to chop 100w which is insane time advantage.
British: can make manor + market with 300w, or fast manor boom
French: can tp, some times on re can clikc on age up 2:30
Otto: +100w can make its rush significantly faster which is already strong
Port: ff age up time decrease duo you dont need chop that many wood in transation
Russia: dont need chop that much wood so its rush will be stronger
Spain: same as port, plus if you get +100f you can age 2:30 if you dont its always 3:00

All significant boost. And you lose them if you are not lucky...
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by tedere12 »

yeah I really like the variety in aoe3 I think fixed crates would make the game more boring
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Asateo »

I personally like the idea of @Darwin_ . A 100 coin start for example is simply useless for India.
I don't mind @Dsy that crates make a strat stronger or another strat possible. Just having a useless crate is such a disadvantage. Especially for the asian civs, who age up already late.

If it would be possible to make sure no civ has a 'useless' starting crate would improve balance and make for more enjoyable gameplay.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

Dsy wrote:Hmm. Only those civs make difference with random crates?
Aztec: If it starts with 300w they will rush faster though they dont need to chop 100w which is insane time advantage.
British: can make manor + market with 300w, or fast manor boom
French: can tp, some times on re can clikc on age up 2:30
Otto: +100w can make its rush significantly faster which is already strong
Port: ff age up time decrease duo you dont need chop that many wood in transation
Russia: dont need chop that much wood so its rush will be stronger
Spain: same as port, plus if you get +100f you can age 2:30 if you dont its always 3:00

All significant boost. And you lose them if you are not lucky...

Well, while I think that those situations do make a lot of difference for the civs in question, you also have to remember that the other civ in the matchup could benefit just as much. IMO essentially every civ benefits equally from a wood crate or food crate, the only really discrepancies in my mind are with how much they benefit from a coin crate, with civs like french, germany, and dutch benefiting far more than civs like iro, Japan, India, sioux, or russia.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by momuuu »

I think it's india/Japan/China which just suffer from coin crate starts because it actually slows them down early game, while civs that can age 1 TP comfortably (most notably, France and Germany) are reaaally strong at 100w starts.

Your analysis with regards to Dutch is wrong. Realistically speaking you should probably always age 15 villager and if you do age 14 villagers its not much better, and the extra crates sorta matter but really only after aging at which point all civs benefit from 100c.

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