Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

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Italy Garja
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Garja »

Darwin_ wrote:I think a cool way to balance crate starts would instead of the game calculating the random crate(s) as the game loads, it instead chooses from like 3 set crate starts for each civ, each ranked in terms of power. lets say the patch team makes the three possible crate starts for india 400w/300f, 400w/200f, and 300w/200f: ranked 1, 2, and 3 respectively; and dutch's crate starts 400c/200w, 400c/100w/100f, and 400c/100w: again ranked 1, 2, and 3.

So when the game loads, instead of choosing whether there what the random crate will be (which in this matchup is incredibly imbalanced), it would choose which of their crate starts they would get, i.e. 1, 2, or 3.

This would result in much more balanced crate starts in matchups like this where the random crate can cause large imbalances, but it would also allow for more finely tuning and balancing starts (take germany for example, this crate system would allow for them to never start with 200 wood, but always start with 100 wood, unlike the current system where that just isn't possible. Same thing for iro (always give 100 wood), or japan (always give 300 wood))

Well, aside from a number of exception the same extra crate rank in the same order for all civs.
It's just that some civs can squeeze something more with the extra crates.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

Garja wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I think a cool way to balance crate starts would instead of the game calculating the random crate(s) as the game loads, it instead chooses from like 3 set crate starts for each civ, each ranked in terms of power. lets say the patch team makes the three possible crate starts for india 400w/300f, 400w/200f, and 300w/200f: ranked 1, 2, and 3 respectively; and dutch's crate starts 400c/200w, 400c/100w/100f, and 400c/100w: again ranked 1, 2, and 3.

So when the game loads, instead of choosing whether there what the random crate will be (which in this matchup is incredibly imbalanced), it would choose which of their crate starts they would get, i.e. 1, 2, or 3.

This would result in much more balanced crate starts in matchups like this where the random crate can cause large imbalances, but it would also allow for more finely tuning and balancing starts (take germany for example, this crate system would allow for them to never start with 200 wood, but always start with 100 wood, unlike the current system where that just isn't possible. Same thing for iro (always give 100 wood), or japan (always give 300 wood))

Well, aside from a number of exception the same extra crate rank in the same order for all civs.
It's just that some civs can squeeze something more with the extra crates.

What are you trying to say?
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Darwin_ »

Jerom wrote:I think it's india/Japan/China which just suffer from coin crate starts because it actually slows them down early game, while civs that can age 1 TP comfortably (most notably, France and Germany) are reaaally strong at 100w starts.

Your analysis with regards to Dutch is wrong. Realistically speaking you should probably always age 15 villager and if you do age 14 villagers its not much better, and the extra crates sorta matter but really only after aging at which point all civs benefit from 100c.

I don't want to start an argument with you but I think you are totally wrong and aging 14 vills with dutch is in fact incredibly good in most matchups, and even if you age 15v on coin start, that means you can start to gather res for the bank earlier thus quickening your boom and everything else.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Darwin_ wrote:
Jerom wrote:I think it's india/Japan/China which just suffer from coin crate starts because it actually slows them down early game, while civs that can age 1 TP comfortably (most notably, France and Germany) are reaaally strong at 100w starts.

Your analysis with regards to Dutch is wrong. Realistically speaking you should probably always age 15 villager and if you do age 14 villagers its not much better, and the extra crates sorta matter but really only after aging at which point all civs benefit from 100c.

I don't want to start an argument with you but I think you are totally wrong and aging 14 vills with dutch is in fact incredibly good in most matchups, and even if you age 15v on coin start, that means you can start to gather res for the bank earlier thus quickening your boom and everything else.


It's pretty hard with 14V to get the bank. You probably get it the same time - if not earlier with 15V.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by yemshi »

It's possible. 50w helps a lot though.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

It's certainly possible. Some people even age with 9/10 villagers with Dutch and use the 400w. But thats none of my business :ohmy:
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Hazza54321 »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:It's certainly possible. Some people even age with 9/10 villagers with Dutch and use the 400w. But thats none of my business :ohmy:

Who does that lol
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Hazza54321 wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:It's certainly possible. Some people even age with 9/10 villagers with Dutch and use the 400w. But thats none of my business :ohmy:

Who does that lol

Its not my business. I am not a autism doctor.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by ssaraf »

Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by KINGofOsmane »

ssaraf wrote:Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY

who does 10/10 apart from god tit
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

ssaraf wrote:Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY

Wonder build time is not changed and 10/10 is actually nerfed to the ground.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
ssaraf wrote:Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY

Wonder build time is not changed and 10/10 is actually nerfed to the ground.

imo a normal age-up is just so much better anyway. unless you are @evilcheadar of course
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:
Jerom wrote:I think it's india/Japan/China which just suffer from coin crate starts because it actually slows them down early game, while civs that can age 1 TP comfortably (most notably, France and Germany) are reaaally strong at 100w starts.

Your analysis with regards to Dutch is wrong. Realistically speaking you should probably always age 15 villager and if you do age 14 villagers its not much better, and the extra crates sorta matter but really only after aging at which point all civs benefit from 100c.

I don't want to start an argument with you but I think you are totally wrong and aging 14 vills with dutch is in fact incredibly good in most matchups, and even if you age 15v on coin start, that means you can start to gather res for the bank earlier thus quickening your boom and everything else.

I don't actually think it quickens everything else really. The res you need to gather for a bank and the next villager are quite a lot, its already really close when you age with 15 villagers. Unless its a really good crate start (I actually think food+wood would be the easiest) with good treasures, I think it hardly matters. And even if it does, its not even remotely close to how good a TP start is for Germany/France or how good a wood start is for india/Japan.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Hazza54321 »

You can do 14 on ep for sure
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by ssaraf »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
ssaraf wrote:Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY

Wonder build time is not changed and 10/10 is actually nerfed to the ground.


Idk exact changes about India, but from reading the various posts from this thread it seems India is slowly getting modified to behave much like a semi or FF based euro civ from a TAD civ which acts as a powerhouse in colonial. Probably, It sways too much from the EP motto : Keep the game as close to original with minimal balance and gameplay changes.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by momuuu »

Hazza54321 wrote:You can do 14 on ep for sure

Yes, surely, but the bank timing won't be much faster, realistically, and thus your next shipment won't be much faster. It might sometimes be a bit better, but it's not an argument for fixed crates.

That being said, I'm totally in favor of fixed or pseudo fixed crates.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Asateo »

ssaraf wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
ssaraf wrote:Wait a minute, in this 8 page long thread , did I read somewhere that India may get 10 secs off its wonder time? It means 10/10 hits even faster? Are you kidding me. WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYYY

Wonder build time is not changed and 10/10 is actually nerfed to the ground.


Idk exact changes about India, but from reading the various posts from this thread it seems India is slowly getting modified to behave much like a semi or FF based euro civ from a TAD civ which acts as a powerhouse in colonial. Probably, It sways too much from the EP motto : Keep the game as close to original with minimal balance and gameplay changes.


I think you are referring to the discussion about china's crates or an extra sheep, where it was said that India needed the faster age-up more. (Which is true imo.) Nothing was said about wonderbuild time though.
Giving India a somewhat faster ff wouldn't be a problem imo, since it has one of the slower ff's in the game.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Goodspeed »

For India sepoy will be nerfed and house cost decreased. No changes to wonder build time.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by momuuu »

That sounds like a bunch of poor changes to me.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

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Post by Goodspeed »

Calm down there, we aren't changing Dutch
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by momuuu »

I don't like the india changes. I find strong sepoys a core part of india and I find that india like that has a stable and constructive place in the meta.

Nerfing sepoys and buffing houses seems like a "we don't like that people can actually rush in this game" change.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Dsy »

When you change india's house cost which india do you talking about?
100f 300w 100c?
200f 400w?

Or to be said:
First case cost reduction is minimal.
Second case india become unstopable.

I guess some guys thats why says india op. It depends on the crates start already. To be more claer the mentioned start difference in age up time much more than 10s...

Ep solution: Curse india before you play against them to not be overwhelming...:D
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Id nerf sepoys and give them 700 crates and at least 200f every spawn
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:I don't like the india changes. I find strong sepoys a core part of india and I find that india like that has a stable and constructive place in the meta.

Nerfing sepoys and buffing houses seems like a "we don't like that people can actually rush in this game" change.
The reliance on sepoy made India a one dimensional civ. We want to encourage intra-civ build variety. The Otto change is similar. General buff + jan nerf.

We think the issue is with those specific units because the Indian and Ottoman armies are currently 90% sepoy/jan in most match ups.
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Re: Why is there no new Patch Version before the the Autumn Tournament?

Post by ssaraf »

I also don't like the sepoy nerf. Its like saying to ppl , listen you scrubs you should only make gurkha , that's how the game is supposed to be played. Noobs like you who make sepoy will be punished. I mean, its like removing a pretty huge weapon from there arsenal. Also, having a stronger sepoy somehow covers up for their low hp cavs (both zambs are sowars are pretty weak).

From these changes, It appears there wasn't much thought given here. XD DIG DEEP GS :D

Also, thinking along the same lines, why the fuk hasnt there been an ashi nerf. Its been called for since the patch first released.

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