Gendarme wrote:I still can't believe that Aizamk is still alone in his ways of enjoying the game and making it more enjoyable for the viewers after all this time - at least among the top players. Show some passion, people!
I would say its odd to conclude that the meta naturally evolves towards a semi FF TP meta. I wouldn't say that this is what the meta was - and actually is - like on RE. After many years the meta didn't seem to have involed to this, with the 3 top civs being rush civs and some civs like Aztec and Russia being up there too and France/Germany actually electing for colonial strats too. It's at the very least a bit too eager to conclude this without considering the effect that the maps had.
I'd personally actually claim the maps did much more for the meta than anything else. Aoe3 strategies mostly revolve around that critical timing when the safe hunt runs out. A good portion of EP maps add a safe 3rd hunt, which is not really a thing at all on RE, and this changes the game completely. Rushes into a contain aren't going to be as effective anymore while strats that hit a strong timing at 10-12 minutes are massively boosted. This is the biggest thing about the ep meta and in my eyes it is what is causing people to say EP is favoring skirm goon tp semi FF.
The EP team set ouit to balance the game without changing the way RE is being played. In some regards that went well so far, but one thing that's always struck me as odd is that it has never been considered to do anything about the TPs at all. I know it has been discussed, but I dont think it has ever been an option to change TPs. Something that is odd because the maps already buff semi FF play and TPs might be the thing that pushes that towards the meta. So that's why people say EP favors semi FF TP play, because compared to RE it definitely does.
The addition of diverse ep maps is welcome. The evolution of semi ff meta is mostly because of the map collection than the patch changes. Different map types require different playstyles to win. that's why it would be interesting to see how the map diversity plays out in next tournament.
The rush civs(and colonial play) should still be dominant on low res maps. Lets see how india does with the sepoy nerf. Even the ff, semi-ff civs should have a viable build for low res map. So intra-civ balancing might be required for some more factions.
We should appreciate those who have done the hard work for the ep patch. Its still a work in progress, and with an understanding that there will be flexibility in reverting any change which doesn't turn out as intended.
Jerom is 1000% is right. Good hunts already made semis, ffs unpunishable. And for example dutch strong. But the in addition they add insane buffs to dutch, nerf basic rushes down and make every game same skirm-goon war.
But thats the playstyle of gs, h2o and garja! Same as me and Tit decide to make every map like Ozarks and then buff sepoy hp to 200.
I have nothing to do with this lol and my playstyle is far from being semi FF or boomy. Like my main civs are TWC civs, what are you even talking about? I do agree on all the rest, maps mostly changed the meta and ye it caters toward FF play. However, it's players fault too as they just ban maps like Klondike or Cascade Range which are in fact just fine.
Garja wrote:I have nothing to do with this lol and my playstyle is far from being semi FF or boomy. Like my main civs are TWC civs, what are you even talking about? I do agree on all the rest, maps mostly changed the meta and ye it caters toward FF play. However, it's players fault too as they just ban maps like Klondike or Cascade Range which are in fact just fine.
What could make cascade range a fine map is a buff on natives, else, I have no clue about what makes that map good. It has no water and bad food
Cascade Range has about as much food as Yukon, Patagonia, Mongolia, etc. Except you always get a 2nd hunt and 4k berries in base, plus lot of berries and hunts here and there. I think what makes the map good is that you can't play textbook FF style, and you have to consider stuff like caravel drops on the ponds, dropping strategic outposts or walls, etc. Basically the resource control factor is stressed more which is a good thing in AOE3.
IMO the Autumn-17 tournament should be on existing patch to which players are comfortable. There is not enough time to test and validate the changes in new patch(+maps). Especially, since there are lot of voices against some changes in new patch.
aqwer wrote:IMO the Autumn-17 tournament should be on existing patch to which players are comfortable. There is not enough time to test and validate the changes in new patch(+maps). Especially, since there are lot of voices against some changes in new patch.
Actually the patch should be released weeks earlier than the tournament sign ups so the players get the time to practice on it
Garja wrote:I have nothing to do with this lol and my playstyle is far from being semi FF or boomy. Like my main civs are TWC civs, what are you even talking about? I do agree on all the rest, maps mostly changed the meta and ye it caters toward FF play. However, it's players fault too as they just ban maps like Klondike or Cascade Range which are in fact just fine.
The problem with low resource maps is that that's not what people want. If you play cascade range your 2nd hunt is actually going to be pretty shitty half of the time, which is not what people want. And then theres basically 3 hunts on the map, which is also not what people want. What people want is actually a map with decent resources but not with a 3rd hunt next to your TC or within herdable range. This happens all the time, I've frequently played games where I realistically did a build order that would be too greedy but I was lucky and had a 3rd hunt in a very safe spot so I could just defend for 13 minutes or something (also enjoying my safe 2 mines). Whenever you fix this, the map is tassili like. While tassili is okay, it's actually really low on food in general which is what people don't like. People want a map with an amount of food that arkansas has but without 3 hunts in your TC range and a 4th hunt safely in the back from time to time.
aqwer wrote:IMO the Autumn-17 tournament should be on existing patch to which players are comfortable. There is not enough time to test and validate the changes in new patch(+maps). Especially, since there are lot of voices against some changes in new patch.
Actually the patch should be released weeks earlier than the tournament sign ups so the players get the time to practice on it
Actually the patch should seriously be playtested before released but the patch team is just way too small.
I want to find games faster and with quick search, for more random games, that would be nice. And to see all EP users online. A bit more gameplay like the original game too, cant remember all the changes if switching patch anymore
Jerom wrote:Actually the patch should seriously be playtested before released but the patch team is just way too small.
I think we are looking at public betas of future patch versions.
91 wrote:I want to find games faster and with quick search, for more random games, that would be nice. And to see all EP users online. A bit more gameplay like the original game too, cant remember all the changes if switching patch anymore
Some of the network hook stuff coming in EP4 are working toward helping find EP games. I think as we continue to improve those systems, finding games on EP should get much easier.
DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:Actually the patch should be released weeks earlier than the tournament sign ups so the players get the time to practice on it
I really think trying to get patches out with much more time prior to tournaments would be a good thing.
In this thread people make up stuff and ignore actual facts in order to continue saying the only viable builds in the game are semi ff goon skirm builds. Meanwhile those are evenly represented in actual games.
This thread was so hard to read and really disappointing.
Ryan is right. I believe some data from this was in the graphs presented after the Spring Tournament which showed prevalence of this. I am a bit of a sheep about these things but now I have some time to think - people are just too adjusted. Sommpu said himself iro and aztec have quite viable rushes - and BSOP certainly is no stranger to this fast playstyle. Think of our dear Aiz who has had a whale of a time getting to the top over his unique strategies. There has been new EP 'adjustments' but i've yet to see anyone really make use of them. The tournament is going to be played on EP4 regardless of this thread.
JakeyBoyTH 
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DaRkNiTe1698 
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