ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

[Wuangaga]

4 Mams cost 1000g, don't they?

[Kaiserklein]

4 Mams cost 1000g, don't they?

1000g + a fortress shipment, which means basically 2000g if you consider this shipment could be the 1000g shipment.

[Garja]

that's the same for all merc shipments tho

[n0el]

I actually think it would be more insteresting if every game all Mercs were available. That way there is always a counter merc available if needed and there could be a more established meta because it would be less random

[Kaiserklein]

I actually think it would be more insteresting if every game all Mercs were available. That way there is always a counter merc available if needed and there could be a more established meta because it would be less random

Colonial civs would just become useless if we do that. Also it would mean all civs have the same units... For example russia would have skirms and goons, germany would have goons and musks, every game.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Russia and ger would go black riders every games in age3 if they could.

[Wuangaga]

Actually everyone would just use Ninjas since they counter mercs.

[deuxballesman]

And Germans win all the games with improved mercs!

[Rikikipu]

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but i would like to warn that wall with doors have still 3000 HP.

[Garja]

It wasn't intentional and has been discussed a bit. We decided that for now it is fine since it requires an additional 50w.

[Kaiserklein]

The saloon is so broken... I just made a few games and when you get some op shit in it (I had jaegers/highlanders, jaegers/hackapells, black riders, manchus...) it's really really strong. I think if you get a full composition, like jaegers/brs or highlanders/stradiots, and send merc upgrade as german, it's actually better than a normal semi ff (on a map with decent gold mines). Really, try to prod mass manchus, send merc upgrade, and attack move. You will probs beat any skirm/goon composition with it if you micro a bit, and using your free uhlans. Or get hackapells/stradiots vs russ or china... Or highlanders vs brits, etc. On the other hand, you can get an age 4 merc and stuff like swiss pikes, ninjas, arsonists... I don't like this luck factor at all

[Garja]

It has been that way since forever, Japan guys already tried making mass 1 unit (can find recs on their site). Pure mercs is never better than standard unit tho.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Lol, it was intentional. You didn't agree but you're not the one who decides lol.

[Jaeger]

I haven't calculated for all but for example jaegars are slightly less cost efficient than skirms, and I wouldnt be surprised if most other mercs were slightly less cost efficient too. The only bonus is when you're using germany because you get 5% more than a normal upgrade card, and if youre making/shipping more than 1 type of merc, you get an upgrade for your whole army with just 1 card.

There's also an advantage in that the macro is way easier.

Also I saw you saying that mamelukes should be an age 3 merc because they're available to ship in age 3, but just a few days ago you said that just because germany can ship 4 lands in age 2 doesn't mean lands are an age 2 merc

[n0el]

On another topic. I think the icons for TP and native post should be removed next to player score. Especially native posts. Natives are hardly viable in most cases and I think that giving the opponent free information doesn't help make them viable. Why should my opponent know I'm going natives and exactly how to counter without scouting?

[britishmusketeer]

Are you saying that not only should you have to scout their base, but should also have to walk your explorer along the trade route to check how many tps they are building? Tps are already too strong so they hardly need a buff. As for natives, the only time they are built is for cree so hiding them would only make early cree booming a lot stronger.

[zoom]

IIRC it was unintentional. It was intentional not to change it in a hot-fix though...

[zoom]

Yes. I think it's an excellent idea. Giving the opponent free LoS of any build TP in a game where scouting is already easy as shit is a stupid idea.

[n0el]

Yes. Why should you not have to pay to know. Makes no sense.

[Garja]

Hmm ye it's arguable. On paper you should scout that, on practical terms it may be better as it is. One of the reasons why tps should be notified is that they can lead to trade monopoly.

[Kaiserklein]

What ? Jaegers are actually probs the most cost efficient merc. 1 jaeger > 2 vet skirms so I cant see how they would be less cost efficient, since they cost only 1.5 skirms... Same for other good mercs : 1 highlander > 2 vet musks, 1 hackapell > 2 vet uhlans, same for manchus brs strads...

About mams, I mainly wanted them age 3 because atm the saloon has only 1 available merc most of time, for some reason. Landsknechts are special, you can also ship them in fort, I dont think we can make a rule about this.

Also mercs are not only easy to macro but also efficient to macro. You can basically pay for amalgamation and send the op age 3 gold upgrade and that will boost all your eco by 20% and 25%

[n0el]

TPs sure but no reason to show natives.

[deuxballesman]

well on nilla there was no trade monopoly and TPs were still shown

[britishmusketeer]

Would it be possible to create another map pool called 'balanced maps' where there is no tibet, cascade range, mongolia, patagonia, deccan, new england ect?

[Garja]

I think you better off just picking a map in that case.
But ye it is probably possible but not efficient. There are other sets that should have priority over that, like "land maps", "water maps", "unique maps", etc.