ESOC FP Civilization Tiers!

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:40

paul wrote:
subzero wrote:Russia vs otto is chanceless. The moment you realise that you cant micro with russian units, that moment you will not win even if you play like a god.

Russia vs Otto was 0-100. Im sure it is still 0-100 on FP too.
if im otto i wont train abus at all. just spam hussar, and try to take control of tp. jan abus wont beat cossack strelet.

Jan/huss wont break double bh+musk/strel.

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:43

paul wrote:
subzero wrote:Russia vs otto is chanceless. The moment you realise that you cant micro with russian units, that moment you will not win even if you play like a god.

Russia vs Otto was 0-100. Im sure it is still 0-100 on FP too.
if otto insist to play age 2 its 40-60 or even 50-50.
abus kite strelet? why should russia train strelet vs abus? they can send 9 cossack with shipment, and train more coosack with boyar after that. jan has poor anticav attack, and he can also raid you a lot.

Lol completely wrong.

It is never, ever 50-50.

Russia may have ways to deal with Ottoman FF, but for ottomans the best way to win is Jan Abus Cav.

Lol, you mean Russia will not make strelet vs abus, so will you make musk or only cossack? Russia has to go full strelet and cossack I suppose.

Jan has poor anticav attack? bravo man. Youre applying math to prove that jan abus sux.

Normal civs have no way to deal with jan abus, and jan abus cav is impossible.

Abus kite strelet.

https://youtu.be/WAc851E6l68?t=8m51s

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:44

diarouga wrote:
paul wrote:if im otto i wont train abus at all. just spam hussar, and try to take control of tp. jan abus wont beat cossack strelet.
Jan/huss wont break double bh+musk/strel.

just take control of the map and try to starve russia. russia early eco is bad, but jan abus will give him chance (they have 9+ cossack). ofc otto should ff or semiff vs russia, anyway.

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:46

paul wrote:
subzero wrote:Russia vs otto is chanceless. The moment you realise that you cant micro with russian units, that moment you will not win even if you play like a god.

Russia vs Otto was 0-100. Im sure it is still 0-100 on FP too.
if im otto i wont train abus at all. just spam hussar, and try to take control of tp. jan abus wont beat cossack strelet.

Lol man, you wont make abus which two shot russian units. Epic logic.

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:47

paul wrote:
diarouga wrote:Jan/huss wont break double bh+musk/strel.
just take control of the map and try to starve russia. russia early eco is bad, but jan abus will give him chance (they have 9+ cossack). ofc otto should ff or semiff vs russia, anyway.

Semi ff is best way to lose, ff is easier way to win, and jan abus and late cav is best way to win.

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:47

subzero wrote:
paul wrote:if otto insist to play age 2 its 40-60 or even 50-50.
abus kite strelet? why should russia train strelet vs abus? they can send 9 cossack with shipment, and train more coosack with boyar after that. jan has poor anticav attack, and he can also raid you a lot.
Lol completely wrong.

It is never, ever 50-50.?

Russia may have ways to deal with Ottoman FF, but for ottomans the best way to win is Jan Abus Cav.

Lol, you mean Russia will not make strelet vs abus, so will you make musk or only cossack? Russia has to go full strelet and cossack I suppose.?

Jan has poor anticav attack? bravo man. Youre applying math to prove that jan abus sux.

Normal civs have no way to deal with jan abus, and jan abus cav is impossible.

Abus kite strelet.?

https://youtu.be/WAc851E6l68?t=8m51s

raid with 5 cossack, send crates for cossack strelet, then boyar. you can add hussar too, but it wont be easy to spam units from 3 different buildings. ff with a tower is the most safe way to beat russia.

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:50

paul wrote:
subzero wrote:Lol completely wrong.

It is never, ever 50-50.

Russia may have ways to deal with Ottoman FF, but for ottomans the best way to win is Jan Abus Cav.

Lol, you mean Russia will not make strelet vs abus, so will you make musk or only cossack? Russia has to go full strelet and cossack I suppose.

Jan has poor anticav attack? bravo man. Youre applying math to prove that jan abus sux.

Normal civs have no way to deal with jan abus, and jan abus cav is impossible.

Abus kite strelet.

https://youtu.be/WAc851E6l68?t=8m51s

raid with 5 cossack, send crates for cossack strelet, then boyar. you can add hussar too, but it wont be easy to spam units from 3 different buildings. ff with a tower is the most safe way to beat russia.

You dont even need to spam, even if you make 2-3 huss, 2-3 abus, 2-3 jan each time, russia will still lose.

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 28 Oct 2015, 14:51

Otto can just ff against Russia and like 15 jans and falc and than later mams will just rek russia

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 28 Oct 2015, 15:03

garja wrote:
diarouga wrote:Sioux can semi btw.
If sioux can semi, every civ with 400w and exiled prince can semi.
Not all civs with 400w and exiled prince can semi, so sioux cant semi.

eh??!? logic?

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 28 Oct 2015, 15:04

somppukunkku wrote:
garja wrote:Dude otto lose to every single civ on non TP map, not just Russia which btw already does fine vs colonial otto.
Ports already benefit a lot from the new maps. Basically whenever ports have enought hunts to reach late game they have good chances to win.
Play this match up 10 times versus someone decent. You as russia, opponent as ottos. You will lose 10-0. Trust me.
Id be happy to do it but my laptop gaming skills are worse than Princes singing skills. And I dont really have time

on no tp map otto should defo lose to russia :/

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 28 Oct 2015, 15:10

umeu wrote:
garja wrote:If sioux can semi, every civ with 400w and exiled prince can semi.
Not all civs with 400w and exiled prince can semi, so sioux cant semi.
eh??!? logic?

The logic is that since other civs like French and Germans cant semi in many cases, sioux cant either. Germann and French have more defense resource than sioux who have no buildings to shield or mm. The way sioux ages is generally make units for a while and then age sneakily.
The reason why sioux get away with semi is because none is trying to punish them with a rush nowadays.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 28 Oct 2015, 16:19

well in what cases you can semi obviously depends on the mu and the playstyle of your oppo.

anyway what i meant was more that you phrased yourself poorly, rather than that you are wrong in saying that sioux semi is not always viable

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 28 Oct 2015, 19:43

i totally agree with nerfing sioux bow rider and iro units. but could you give them steel trap? bow rider is strong indeed, but what can sioux do except laming br? their eco is shit, they even can't spam 5 cav and 5 cetan in a batch. and the same to iro: toma and kanya are shit. their eco is shit.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 29 Oct 2015, 06:29

Lol, st is op, we don t want to buff twc civs.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 29 Oct 2015, 07:16

no because germans is so much more funzo

fei123456 · Post by **fei123456** » 29 Oct 2015, 08:02

diarouga wrote:Lol, st is op, we don t want to buff twc civs.

if twc civs dont have op eco they should have op units. or how can they deal with euro civs semiff?

britishmusketeer · Post by **britishmusketeer** » 29 Oct 2015, 11:24

paul wrote:
diarouga wrote:Lol, st is op, we don t want to buff twc civs.
if twc civs dont have op eco they should have op units. or how can they deal with euro civs semiff?

iro is supposedly still good after the nerfs, aztec is already too strong and sioux is barely changed.

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 29 Oct 2015, 13:44

paul wrote:
diarouga wrote:Lol, st is op, we don t want to buff twc civs.
if twc civs dont have op eco they should have op units. or how can they deal with euro civs semiff?

Fortunate then that they do!

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 29 Oct 2015, 22:34

yeah, the more I think about it, the more I feel like Aztec is going to be the top civ. Especially since they got a little ninja buff.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 29 Oct 2015, 23:32

jerom wrote:yeah, the more I think about it, the more I feel like Aztec is going to be the top civ. Especially since they got a little ninja buff.

?

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 29 Oct 2015, 23:33

ovi12 wrote:
jerom wrote:yeah, the more I think about it, the more I feel like Aztec is going to be the top civ. Especially since they got a little ninja buff.
?

"- Aztec fortress age "Shaman" politician now grants 2 Nobles huts instead of 1."

Mimsy for President · Post by **Mimsy for President** » 29 Oct 2015, 23:36

Pretty strong buff indeed.

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 29 Oct 2015, 23:51

Not really, but given that Aztec might have been a top civ already

Papist · Post by **Papist** » 30 Oct 2015, 00:26

I doubt that buff will make much difference. The majority of Aztec players never age up.

Method_man714 · Post by **Method_man714** » 30 Oct 2015, 01:16

But has anyone solved the tomahawks freezing to death issue?

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