jerom wrote:How do you have 5 musk 5 cossack out when your opponent has 10 huss.
You must truly suck at this game then.
sometimes russias upping the tp route or getting st and a batch of vills and great coats
jerom wrote:How do you have 5 musk 5 cossack out when your opponent has 10 huss.
You must truly suck at this game then.
If you are raiding with your 5 Cossacks when you need to be using them to counter cavalry early I can see why you would think Russians are weaker to cavalry early on than they actually are...gibson wrote:5 Cossack are gonna be out of the picture raiding so Russia first 5 musk are just gonna die. Even if you bring back five Cossack when your next 5 musk pop 10 hussar or 13 uhlan still way better then 5 musk 5 Cossackzoom wrote:Hence the term: "5 Cossacks".
gibson wrote:Im not sure why you assume that should be possible. If you go for a super economical build, its fairly common that you have to choose to delay eco or army for a little bit. For example, Mitoe adds a market early when he does dutch, this is pretty greedy, and in order to pull it off, he delays making huss in his stable for a little bit. IF you want to do market and tp as french, it means you can no longer get musk and huss out. As germans it means you will have to delay steeltraps for a little bit. ETC ETC. It is very normal that if you want to play that greedy as russia, that you will have to delay making musk or starting your vil batch for like 15 seconds. Im not sure why you are complaining about that, its like that for pretty much every civ. For russia it doesnt even matter so much, because you have your blockhouse ready upon aging up, which means that unlike most civs, you can start training asap, while other civs still have to collect the wood and build the rax/building before they can make stuff.umeu wrote:[span style="font-size:12pt'"]However, if you go with a more economic build ( market with hunting dogs, placer mines, and possibly gang saw in transition along with a blockhouse) its just not possible to have enough resources to que up a batch of vils as well as a batch of musks. [/span]
They just have a subpar eco in early colonial, partially due to batched vils. While having batched vils is better in the long run, short term you end of loosing a lot of vil seconds vs a civ that creates one vil at a time. Having batched infantry also means that even though their musk are cheaper and train faster than standard musk, a musk civ like brit can get out the same amount of musk if not more than a standard civ. Strelets are even worse. You need roughly 500 resources just to start a batch. Its not that you cant que a batch of musk and a batch of vils right when you age, its that batch units and no vil shipments come together to equal a rather shit eco in early colonial.
not sure why you are complaining about this again, because its inherent to their civ design. Their eco isnt even that weak, because they can easily keep up the needed military production and vil production with that eco to compete with civs which have a far better eco, such as french and brits. It is actually civs which have a comparable weak early eco, but a far superior military to russia that easily beat them, such as otto, iro, india and sioux.
Russia offsets this disadvantage by sneaking in eco cards or upgrade cards and by having a good defensive position with 2 towers that also train units and having cost effective fast training units which make it hard to break a defensive position even for civs which are ahead in age and tech. Russia is one of the civs which can "punch above their weight" as obama would say, and thats what makes it a unique civ and fun to play.
lukas2223 wrote:umeu wrote:the fact that you say that means you are clueless about russia. and its not just strelet cossack, but strelet cossack + 15-20 musk. but actually, when you have both upgrades on your cossack, you can basically just strelet cossack vs most comps.
and russia actually has a pretty good semi, which means in fortress they can access strelet cav archer with some cossack. which is very hard to beat, specially if they have kalmuck and manchu to strengthen the ranks.
U still have the nerve to say that after all of the times I raped u with Russia? I guess some people just dont learn. Maybe thats why theyre still at or 35
garja wrote:Batched villagers train faster and cost less, they don''t make you lose any vills second becase those 2 advantage more than compensate the batching.
gibson wrote:@umeu you completely missed my point. Other civs can play more economically without delaying military because they can just spend 100 resources to que up one musket, and then finish off the batch 25 seconds later. This isn''t the case for Russia, as they gave to spend 350 or 475 just to que up a batch of infantry. Also batched villagers result in losing like 70 vil seconds per batch when compared to a standard vil civ.
umeu wrote:I am not missing your point, This is part of russias design, and the design itself isnt unbalanced. russia offsets not being able to queu a unit by having faster training time and cheaper units which are cost effective and by having your infrastructure ready upon aging. So even though you start your batch later, you will have it out faster.gibson wrote:
As russia you can easily do an early market if you have anything but pure 100w start, you can get your steeltraps with the 400w from aging up after you queued your units. I see what you are saying, but you are focusing on the wrong things, you are pointing out at weaknesses which are inherent to their civ design, but offset by the strength of their civ design, while you should be looking at weaknesses which are against their civ design.
garja wrote:If Russia were not able to punish semi ffs then brits wouldn''t be either. Both can deal with semi ffs jsut fine.
jerom wrote:@gibson two things are wrong with your reasoning
a) When 5 huss are out you cant even raid with cossack anyways. Thats way too risky since you do get annihilated. You need to have musk close for back up. And therefor, your cossacks have to be close to your musk.
b) You can still raid, 5 cossacks arrive quite a bit earlier than 5 hussars, so you could do some damage, not that you actually can do a lot of damage vs good players. You dont even have to do a lot of damage. You shipped 750 resources, thats never a waste. The only economic shipment you could go for is 700w but you dont need that as first shipment anyways.
Imo russias early game isnt too weak at all. They are kinda weak at around the timing at which you are supposed to punish semi ffs, and since they basically cant take the fight to fortress they have to try to punish it. Thats why I think strelet range could use a small boost in fortress, so that they become slightly more competitive in fortress wars.
gibson wrote:So what would you say that the weakness of Russia, if any, is? No sarcasm intended, I think its actually great that youre ingaging in discussion with a lower level player.umeu wrote:I am not missing your point, This is part of russias design, and the design itself isnt unbalanced. russia offsets not being able to queu a unit by having faster training time and cheaper units which are cost effective and by having your infrastructure ready upon aging. So even though you start your batch later, you will have it out faster.
As russia you can easily do an early market if you have anything but pure 100w start, you can get your steeltraps with the 400w from aging up after you queued your units. I see what you are saying, but you are focusing on the wrong things, you are pointing out at weaknesses which are inherent to their civ design, but offset by the strength of their civ design, while you should be looking at weaknesses which are against their civ design.
paul wrote:nope. brit eco is faaaaaaaaarrrrr better than russia. and they can semiff too. longbow ? strelet against dragoons.garja wrote:If Russia were not able to punish semi ffs then brits wouldnt be either. Both can deal with semi ffs jsut fine.
garja wrote:As far as it concerns spamming units, brit eco is not better than the russia one. Russia can also semi better than brits for obvious reasons.paul wrote:nope. brit eco is faaaaaaaaarrrrr better than russia. and they can semiff too. longbow ? strelet against dragoons.
How is it a wasted shipment if it''s the only thing ensuring you don''t lose the game straight away??gibson wrote:@umeu you completely missed my point. Other civs can play more economically without delaying military because they can just spend 100 resources to que up one musket, and then finish off the batch 25 seconds later. This isn''t the case for Russia, as they gave to spend 350 or 475 just to que up a batch of infantry. Also batched villagers result in losing like 40 vil seconds per batch when compared to a standard vil civ.
@jerom @zoom well if you send 5 Cossack first and you don''t use it to raid and you don''t push it was a completely wasted shipment. You can''t just hold them back indefinitely because you''re scared of being attacked. And yes Jerom, China is weak towards cav, particularly colonial China. Colonial China can also be beaten by like90% cav and a few musks because they don''t have an option to create 100% anti cav (keshik don''t count as anti cav because they aren''t even cost efficient vs cav)
Strelets beat skirms and cossack are better than ulhans. Its likely tho that Germans will have shit tons of units because their semi ff is too good.paul wrote:yeah they semiff but then? longbow beats skirm and kills war wagonand dragoon easily. strelet lose to skirm and cant aim war wagon at all due to their range. hussar = uhlan. cossack lose to uhan (semiff wont send boyar and cossack without boyar sux).garja wrote:As far as it concerns spamming units, brit eco is not better than the russia one. Russia can also semi better than brits for obvious reasons.
zoom wrote:How is it a wasted shipment if its the only thing ensuring you dont lose the game straight away??gibson wrote:@umeu you completely missed my point. Other civs can play more economically without delaying military because they can just spend 100 resources to que up one musket, and then finish off the batch 25 seconds later. This isnt the case for Russia, as they gave to spend 350 or 475 just to que up a batch of infantry. Also batched villagers result in losing like 40 vil seconds per batch when compared to a standard vil civ.
@jerom @zoom well if you send 5 Cossack first and you dont use it to raid and you dont push it was a completely wasted shipment. You cant just hold them back indefinitely because youre scared of being attacked. And yes Jerom, China is weak towards cav, particularly colonial China. Colonial China can also be beaten by like90% cav and a few musks because they dont have an option to create 100% anti cav (keshik dont count as anti cav because they arent even cost efficient vs cav)
zoom wrote:Virtually every single time for the first few minutes. Any good player with opens pure cavalry against Russians with the majority of civilizations In the odd case your opponent isn''t opening with cavalry you can raid and it''s not a wasted shipment either.
You are just so far off logic here it''s remarkable...
hazza54321 wrote:maybe considering a fixed 200w start so russia as the option to go market rather than coin start
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