Should russia get a buff?

Should russia get a buff in the fp?

Yes
37
56%
No
29
44%
 
Total votes: 66

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Germany yemshi
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by yemshi »

The most annoying thing you can have as Russia is a 15vill ageup. You can't queue 10 strets and still send 5 coss immediately...
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by deleted_user0 »

jerom wrote:
thebritish wrote:its not.
iro went from top civ to mediocre civ with 100f more and 200w less. Getting an extra villager is a bigger buff than that is a nerf, as a villager easily gathers the deficit in res before you even age up, and then continues to accumilate value. 1 extra villager is extraordinary as a buff, I think ports, Dutch, and Spain wouldve become OP if they had gotten an extra villager.

no its not, that is such a big nerf on iros side because you cant early tp. crates >' villagers for many things.

but if u want to keep russia low on vils at start and high on crates, perhaps an extra coin crate. i dont know, russia is hard to balance. improving their units isnt the way, and their eco is quite solid as well if managed well. its more that they have a few weaknesses inherent to their design which are simply hard to balance without changing the civ alot.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by benj89 »

do like dutch for gm gathering and make them gather food from herds and berries slighlty faster
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by deleted_user0 »

i think thats even more op and its harder to implement
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Hazza54321 »

hunting dogs from start of game, not that influential with 5vills then 8vills, or just cheaper vills so russia get a more consistent age up as well as , similar to port, afford vills and military
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by benj89 »

well you can't change their unit, neither there milit ship, both are fine. Adding +1 vill at start is dumb for russia.
remains what: change their eco shipments, so prob smtg like boost their spice trade to 25-30%, or change their gathering rate, or change their ress ship: like infinite 600f which might be retarded idk. Or slightly cheaper vills like 255, or as you said +100c start which could be interesting, again it's all about testing
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Tuvalu gibson
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by gibson »

jerom wrote:Im not sure how much I agree that russia''s early game is where the issue is at. You have great cossack shipments and blockhouses to compensate for it. I like the strelet range because Russia basically can''t compete in fortress games untill very late.

it''s definitly the issue. Mid-late colonial Russia gets amazing, it''s just they have a hard time getting there because when they hit age 2 they don''t even have the eco to support constant vil and military production. So you either have to idle tc and get out military or idle blockhouse and get out vils. Or you can start Cossack but if your opponent scouts that you generally just loose.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Goodspeed »

jerom wrote:Im not sure how much I agree that russia''s early game is where the issue is at. You have great cossack shipments and blockhouses to compensate for it. I like the strelet range because Russia basically can''t compete in fortress games untill very late.
Tried cannons? Infantry range doesn''t really matter if you win the falc war.

I may as well post this somewhere, perhaps it''ll jumpstart the change.
The reason why I have been against changing Russia even though I recognize they currently lose most games on a top level, is that I believe cannons will slowly but surely become a bigger part of this game as people discover that sending 1000w 1000g is very strong, and from there it''s a small step to building a couple of extra cannons. Just one extra falc (3 instead of the 2 from shipment) will make you win the falc war with 2 falcs left, which is a huge deal. Russia is a civ that I feel could do really well in that new meta because a slower early fortress gives them time, their fortress shipments are otherwise underwhelming and it allows them to more easily defend forward bases against armies that would usually outrange theirs.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by britishmusketeer »

hazza54321 wrote:hunting dogs from start of game, not that influential with 5vills then 8vills, or just cheaper vills so russia get a more consistent age up as well as , similar to port, afford vills and military

Giving them free hunting dogs would just incentivise no market rushing.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by momuuu »

calmyourtits wrote:
jerom wrote:Im not sure how much I agree that russias early game is where the issue is at. You have great cossack shipments and blockhouses to compensate for it. I like the strelet range because Russia basically cant compete in fortress games untill very late.
Tried cannons? Infantry range doesnt really matter if you win the falc war.

I may as well post this somewhere, perhaps itll jumpstart the change.
The reason why I have been against changing Russia even though I recognize they currently lose most games on a top level, is that I believe cannons will slowly but surely become a bigger part of this game as people discover that sending 1000w 1000g is very strong, and from there its a small step to building a couple of extra cannons. Just one extra falc (3 instead of the 2 from shipment) will make you win the falc war with 2 falcs left, which is a huge deal. Russia is a civ that I feel could do really well in that new meta because it allows them to more easily defend forward bases against armies that would usually outrange theirs.
I am not a fan of falcs at all. They tend to disappoint me badly whenever I do make them.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

calmyourtits wrote:
jerom wrote:Im not sure how much I agree that russias early game is where the issue is at. You have great cossack shipments and blockhouses to compensate for it. I like the strelet range because Russia basically cant compete in fortress games untill very late.
Tried cannons? Infantry range doesnt really matter if you win the falc war.

I may as well post this somewhere, perhaps itll jumpstart the change.
The reason why I have been against changing Russia even though I recognize they currently lose most games on a top level, is that I believe cannons will slowly but surely become a bigger part of this game as people discover that sending 1000w 1000g is very strong, and from there its a small step to building a couple of extra cannons. Just one extra falc (3 instead of the 2 from shipment) will make you win the falc war with 2 falcs left, which is a huge deal. Russia is a civ that I feel could do really well in that new meta because a slower early fortress gives them time, their fortress shipments are otherwise underwhelming and it allows them to more easily defend forward bases against armies that would usually outrange theirs.
Yeah true.
Bsop before he stopped playing was going semi ff full eco, 17v age up, eco theory and musk/falc in age3.
It ofc still loose to fre/ger but that isnt that bad.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Durokan »

Give Russia the ability to train batches of 5 slightly cheaper and weaker pikemen. This would synergize well with strelets as they both cost food and wood, and it would somewhat alleviate the problem of anticav for russia. Their only upgrade option for the pikes like other archaic units would be veteran pikes as none of russia's cards aside from ransack (age 3 50% siege increase for infantry) directly affect them.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by tedere12 »

hm idk i think early on russia is weak against cav maybe buff their musks of give them a musk upgrade
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by fei123456 »

start vill +1
or
give them 1000g 10 jaeger shipment
or
strelet range buff
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Hazza54321 »

paul wrote:start vill +1
or
give them 1000g 10 jaeger shipment
or
strelet range buff
their main problem isnt strelets range, its their anti cav in age 2 and their slow eco
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by momuuu »

hazza54321 wrote:
paul wrote:start vill +1
or
give them 1000g 10 jaeger shipment
or
strelet range buff
their main problem isnt strelets range, its their anti cav in age 2 and their slow eco
I dont think their eco is that slow and that their anti cav is bad at all. Thats just a myth to me.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by gibson »

jerom wrote:
hazza54321 wrote:their main problem isnt strelets range, its their anti cav in age 2 and their slow eco
I dont think their eco is that slow and that their anti cav is bad at all. Thats just a myth to me.

their anticav is objectively bad as a Russian musk does 30 hand damage vs cav with 120 hp. A hussar does 30 damage with 320 hp before age two cards are in. Their eco is slow because of no vil cards and batched settlers. A normal civ trains a vil, that vil works away. Trains another vil, that vil works a way, and then about ten seconds before their third vil trains thats when Russia gets its three vils. So each batch of vils you train you essentially miss out on like 80 vil seconds.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by mongobillione »

strelet 2 more range seems legit to me.. thats all they need. and imo blockhouse shouldnt give +5 pop and their chance on a start tp is also = zero which i dislike
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Jaeger »

Just make vill batches cost 255 food?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by momuuu »

gibson wrote:
jerom wrote:I dont think their eco is that slow and that their anti cav is bad at all. Thats just a myth to me.
their anticav is objectively bad as a Russian musk does 30 hand damage vs cav with 120 hp. A hussar does 30 damage with 320 hp before age two cards are in. Their eco is slow because of no vil cards and batched settlers. A normal civ trains a vil, that vil works away. Trains another vil, that vil works a way, and then about ten seconds before their third vil trains thats when Russia gets its three vils. So each batch of vils you train you essentially miss out on like 80 vil seconds.
The anti cav shit. Come on, you are smarter than that.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Durokan »

Why doesn't russia have pikemen?
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by lukas2223 »

Some people on this forum need to pull their head out of their asses and wake up. Russia is a direly underpowered civ that needs buffing NOW. Their army is shit and their Eco takes time to not be shit. The only chance they have is to do a pressure rush while adding in some Eco and hope they are playing against monkeys.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by gibson »

jerom wrote:
gibson wrote:their anticav is objectively bad as a Russian musk does 30 hand damage vs cav with 120 hp. A hussar does 30 damage with 320 hp before age two cards are in. Their eco is slow because of no vil cards and batched settlers. A normal civ trains a vil, that vil works away. Trains another vil, that vil works a way, and then about ten seconds before their third vil trains thats when Russia gets its three vils. So each batch of vils you train you essentially miss out on like 80 vil seconds.
The anti cav shit. Come on, you are smarter than that.
My mommy said Im smart. But seriously, theyre not good as all. They trade cost effectively with cav if and only if all the musk are in hand combat, in which case the cav just leave. If you have like 20 musk vs 10 hussar, like 3 of the musk will be in had combat doing 30 damage, while the rest of them will be doing a pathetic 18 damage. Meanwhile, a hussar kills a musk in 4 hits, has 320 hp so it takes 11 musket jabs to kill him and and an insane 18 musket shots. that means if you have any less then 18 musket , they can all shoot and not 1 hussar will die. These numbers arent quite accurate because Im unsure of the resists of either unit, but it cant possibly get better for russia counting in resists. Ive never actually tried it, primarily because the two civs I play the most are russia and japan, but Im pretty confident that a civ like german or french can go 100% cav no age III and just beat russia. I mean german will have 7 uhlan when russia has 5 musk and french will have 5 hussar when russia has 5 musk. You can win that as germany loosing only 1 uhlan and as french without loosing a hussar. Then when the next batch of musk pop its 10 huss vs 5 musk or 13 uhlan vs 5 musk. At that point youve lost because you wont be able to gather more than 3 feet from your tc, you have no military shipment to help clean up cav, and you dont have the eco to make more than 1 batch of musk at a time.
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by Hazza54321 »

gibson wrote:
jerom wrote:The anti cav shit. Come on, you are smarter than that.
My mommy said Im smart. But seriously, theyre not good as all. They trade cost effectively with cav if and only if all the musk are in hand combat, in which case the cav just leave. If you have like 20 musk vs 10 hussar, like 3 of the musk will be in had combat doing 30 damage, while the rest of them will be doing a pathetic 18 damage. Meanwhile, a hussar kills a musk in 4 hits, has 320 hp so it takes 11 musket jabs to kill him and and an insane 18 musket shots. that means if you have any less then 18 musket , they can all shoot and not 1 hussar will die. These numbers arent quite accurate because Im unsure of the resists of either unit, but it cant possibly get better for russia counting in resists. Ive never actually tried it, primarily because the two civs I play the most are russia and japan, but Im pretty confident that a civ like german or french can go 100% cav no age III and just beat russia. I mean german will have 7 uhlan when russia has 5 musk and french will have 5 hussar when russia has 5 musk. You can win that as germany loosing only 1 uhlan and as french without loosing a hussar. Then when the next batch of musk pop its 10 huss vs 5 musk or 13 uhlan vs 5 musk. At that point youve lost because you wont be able to gather more than 3 feet from your tc, you have no military shipment to help clean up cav, and you dont have the eco to make more than 1 batch of musk at a time.
this guy makes sense, people say russian musks are better than regular musk as theyre cheaper and more cost effective, but thats only when russia has enough musk to make this statement valid, their eco is just slightly too slow to get a sufficient number of musks out to compete with other musks/ cav numbers
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Should russia get a buff?

Post by noissance »

Make cossack cost 100 food 50 coin
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