General Balance Discussion

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Feel free to suggest and discuss anything not suited for pre-existing topics here!

?? Cassador, Cuirassier (including Consulate "Gendarme" version), Eagle Runner Knight, Halberdier, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Lancer (including Consulate "Garrochista" version), Oprichnik, Spahi and War Wagon all given Colonial Age base stats' these units now scale as intended.

?? Consulate Units now conform to the same statistics as the regular units they are based on. This affects the following units from the Consulate: Besteiro Crossbowmen, Carabineer Ruyters, Czapka Uhlans, Gardener Hussars, Great Bombards, Prussian Needle Gun Skirmishers, Roger's Rangers Skirmishers, and Siberian Cossacks.

[Good ol Ivan]

Feel free to suggest and discuss anything not suited for pre-existing topics here!

?? Cassador, Cuirassier (including Consulate "Gendarme" version), Eagle Runner Knight, Halberdier, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Lancer (including Consulate "Garrochista" version), Oprichnik, Spahi and War Wagon all given Colonial Age base stats' these units now scale as intended.

Why would you do that. Only cuirrs and maaybe oprichniks need that.

?? Consulate Units now conform to the same statistics as the regular units they are based on. This affects the following units from the Consulate: Bestiero Crossbowmen, Carabineer Ruyters, Czapka Uhlans, Gardener Hussars, Great Bombards, Prussian Needle Gun Skirmishers, Roger''s Rangers Skirmishers, and Siberian Cossacks.

Alright that sounds good to me.

[Good ol Ivan]

I would like to see more unit variety. How about boosting grens and halbs?
No one past lvl 16 ever makes neither of those units.

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As far as balance goes, Cuirassiers scale too well in particular, and all these units scale too well relative to how good their base statistics are in general' several of them need to be buffed but also need to be given Colonial Age base stats to not be broken.

Essentially, it's a bug in the first place...

[Good ol Ivan]

As far as balance goes, Cuirassiers scale too well in particular, and all these units scale too well relative to how good their base statistics are in general' several of them need to be buffed but also need to be given Colonial Age base stats to not be broken.

Essentially, it''s a bug in the first place...

I''m pretty sure its intentional. not all tad or twc units have colo stats.

[deleted_user0]

Here are some reasonable changes...

General units:
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->'20%[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->'30%[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->'130hp[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->'220hp. Speed increased 4-->'4.5.[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->'100hp.[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced.[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers.[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->'180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->'26[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->'11[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->'135, attack 10-->'11[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->'115[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->'4[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->'+4 range.[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed.[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. [/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games.[/div]
[/div]

[top_cao]

i??d think xbow should be buffed.pike is too weak to musket.musket ??0.5VS heavy inf?and crossbow ??1.75 VS heavy inf?i think.

[zoom]

As far as balance goes, Cuirassiers scale too well in particular, and all these units scale too well relative to how good their base statistics are in general' several of them need to be buffed but also need to be given Colonial Age base stats to not be broken.

Essentially, its a bug in the first place...

Im pretty sure its intentional. not all tad or twc units have colo stats.

Nor do all Vanilla units. So?

[Garja]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->'20% maybe[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->'30% no[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->'130hp ok[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->'220hp. Speed increased 4-->'4.5. not really[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->'100hp. not needed[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced. not possible[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers. maybe[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->'180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->'26 only hp[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->'11 maybe[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->'135, attack 10-->'11 not needed imo[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->'115 already buffed[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->'4 no[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->'+4 range. maybe[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed. +2 range I''d say, card must be nasty[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. not really a problem, but ye maybe train time discount reduced[/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games. rams are already quite useful[/div]
[/div]

[hadeskerbecs]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->'20% maybe[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->'30% no[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->'130hp ok[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->'220hp. Speed increased 4-->'4.5. not really[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->'100hp. not needed[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced. not possible[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers. maybe[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->'180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->'26 only hp[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->'11 maybe[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->'135, attack 10-->'11 not needed imo[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->'115 already buffed[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->'4 no[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->'+4 range. maybe[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed. +2 range Id say, card must be nasty[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. not really a problem, but ye maybe train time discount reduced[/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games. rams are already quite useful[/div]
[/div]

If u change this u will change the whole game! wich i dont like...

[evilcheadar]

I would like to see more unit variety. How about boosting grens and halbs?
No one past lvl 16 ever makes neither of those units.

Me past 16 and I''ll call in French consulate grens vs japan when playing India.

[Mimsy for President]

- Native Treaties should provide more units. It would encourage nat play.
- Grens trainable at rax (yeah I know it's a big change but at least they would have a use).
- From Cometk : "China can queue up a banner army at 199/200". It should be fixed or enabled for all civs.

[gibson]

Aizamk made halbs against me in settler massacre once

[Good ol Ivan]

Aizamk does crazy shit.

@Garja why are you against buffing halbs?
I'd only agree with HP boosts tho, as their purpose seems to tank/provide a meatshield, It would be cool to see halbs vs musks and see halbs actually win.

[thebritish]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->'20% this could made them weak to skirmishers IMO[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->'30% +1[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->'130hp needed[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->'220hp. Speed increased 4-->'4.5. ....[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->'100hp. i absolutely agree for this one. or maybe give lbow''s 10% hp from yeomen card.[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced. +1[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers. that will make germany too OP in early colonial vs slower age up civs.[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->'180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->'26 +1[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->'11 maybe to 12? or just 11 with more base hitpoints[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->'135, attack 10-->'11 +1[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->'115 not sure, maybe 110 would be okay too[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->'4 maybe put it 4.2 i guess because otherwise this could kill their uniques[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->'+4 range. +1[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed. the card is not really bad (maybe just make +4 if all agree)[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. ...[/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games.[/div]
[/div]

[momuuu]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->'20%[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->'30%[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->'130hp[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->'220hp. Speed increased 4-->'4.5.[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->'100hp.[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced.[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers.[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->'180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->'26[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->'11[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->'135, attack 10-->'11[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->'115[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->'4[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->'+4 range.[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed.[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. [/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games.[/div][/div]

While most of these seem fair, the balance is going to get shaken up too heavily by most of them I feel. For example, Ashi speed from 4.5 to 4 would be a big hit to Japan, one that isn''t necessary imo. Buffing unhits like halbs is more fair I think. It doesn''t influence the meta as much if you just make them a comparable option to skirm goon, not a better option.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:?
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->20% this could made them weak to skirmishers IMO[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->30% +1[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->130hp needed[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->220hp. Speed increased 4-->4.5. ....[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->100hp. i absolutely agree for this one. or maybe give lbows 10% hp from yeomen card.[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced. +1[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers. that will make germany too OP in early colonial vs slower age up civs.[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->26 +1[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->11 maybe to 12? or just 11 with more base hitpoints[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->135, attack 10-->11 +1[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->115 not sure, maybe 110 would be okay too[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->4 maybe put it 4.2 i guess because otherwise this could kill their uniques[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:?

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->+4 range. +1[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed. the card is not really bad (maybe just make +4 if all agree)[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. ...[/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games.[/div]
[/div]

I miss Marco..

[Cometk]

- From Cometk : "China can queue up a banner army at 199/200". It should be fixed or enabled for all civs.

was just pointing it out, i personally don''t think it''s a balance issue and i don''t think it''s something that should be changed 'p

as it is now the banner army queues a single entity, meaning that if you''re at 199/200 the game will register the banner army as 1 unit in queue despite actually producing the 6 population worth of units. the russian blockhouse is producing 5 musketeers, 5 seperate entities, meaning it can only be queued if you have 5 free population space. besides, i believe it would take a bit of advanced coding to get a similar effect to work for civs like russia.

[thebritish]

I miss Marco..

he is here.

[britishmusketeer]

Here is some reasonable changes...

General units:?
[ul type="disc"][li]Dragoon resistance: 30%-->20% this could made them weak to skirmishers IMO[/li][li]Crossbowman ranged resistance 20%-->30% +1[/li][li]Pikeman hitpoints: 120hp-->130hp needed[/li][li]Halberdier: Basehit points 200hp-->220hp. Speed increased 4-->4.5. ....[/li][li]Longbowman hitpoints: 95-->100hp. i absolutely agree for this one. or maybe give lbows 10% hp from yeomen card.[/li][li]Grenadier animation time slightly reduced. +1[/li][li]Uhlan 0.8x bonus to villagers. that will make germany too OP in early colonial vs slower age up civs.[/li][li]Sepoy hitpoints reduced: 190-->180 BUT ranged damage: 25-->26 +1[/li][li]Roderlero melee damage increased from 10-->11 maybe to 12? or just 11 with more base hitpoints[/li][li]Warclub hitpoints increased: 120-->135, attack 10-->11 +1[/li][li]Cetanbow hitpoints: 100-->115 not sure, maybe 110 would be okay too[/li][li]Ashigaru speed reduced: 4.5-->4 maybe put it 4.2 i guess because otherwise this could kill their uniques[/li][/ul][div]
Cards:?

[ul type="disc"][li]Portoguese IV dragoon card, +6 range-->+4 range. +1[/li][li]Card that gives warships +5 range, completely chaged or removed. the card is not really bad (maybe just make +4 if all agree)[/li][li]Gendarme IV card removed or nerfed. ...[/li][/ul][div]
Here is some ideas.. Also siege (rams, flail elephants etc..) units should be buffed to make them useful in real games.[/div]
[/div]

lol you know that 0.8x vs vills is a nerf right?

[thebritish]

I didnt.
So, that means longbowmans/crossbowmans/skirmishers and skirmish type units just suck vs cav?

[momuuu]

Suggested before, plantation wood cost to 600w.

[Papist]

A couple proposals for our good friend the cuirassier:

2 splash to 1 but increase attack in age 3 (age 4 attack remains the same) and melee resist instead of ranged.

[Good ol Ivan]

Suggested before, plantation wood cost to 600w.

+11

transitioning onto mills is bad enough, but plantations are horribly expensive and you get to gather coin as quickly as you gather wood...

[noissance]

I think the best way to balance the game is to balance it for the noobs, not the "pro" top level play. Ain't nobody got time for that shi*.