What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

_RDX_ · Post by **_RDX_** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:18

Hello there,
I had lot of confusion about the mameluke shipment in the new EP fan patch by GoodSpeed. It was said that the shipment will be moved to industrial. but, instead they reduced it to 4 mamelukes and made it active in age 3 itself. Does that balance the game anyways? cozz it still helps when you play Otto. Even they balanced by decreasing the HP of jans and decreasing the attack of abus, but still doesn't affect when otto goes age 3. Reducing only one mame in the shipment is nothing for otto. This makes it imbalanced, where otto has both abus, jan and mames in age 3.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:21

the shipment wasnt moved to age4, the shipment was reduced from 5 to 4. Mamelukes (and some other mercs) were available for TAD civs in age3, while only available for EURO civs in age4, so they changed this for TAD civs, so that those mercs are now also available only in age4.

_RDX_ · Post by **_RDX_** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:25

umeu wrote:the shipment wasnt moved to age4, the shipment was reduced from 5 to 4. Mamelukes (and some other mercs) were available for TAD civs in age3, while only available for EURO civs in age4, so they changed this for TAD civs, so that those mercs are now also available only in age4.

i understand, but i was talking about 4 mames and otto in the new FP

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:26

-1 mam is already a huge nerf, that's -1500 HP.

_RDX_ · Post by **_RDX_** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:34

diarouga wrote:-1 mam is already a huge nerf, that''s -1500 HP.

It is but for otto it isn''t. the abus have 40 attack which is not bad for a skirm. 225 HP is fair for jans, With these units, still Otto enjoys 4 mames shipment. I need some brief about this really.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:43

rdx wrote:
umeu wrote:the shipment wasnt moved to age4, the shipment was reduced from 5 to 4. Mamelukes (and some other mercs) were available for TAD civs in age3, while only available for EURO civs in age4, so they changed this for TAD civs, so that those mercs are now also available only in age4.
i understand, but i was talking about 4 mames and otto in the new FP

I am too, and im saying, the never said the shipment is going to industrial, its the mamelukes in the monastery that has been moved to industrial

_RDX_ · Post by **_RDX_** » 07 Nov 2015, 13:58

i think someone suggested that idea, about moving the shipment to age 4 in TAD. it really balances Otto.

britishmusketeer · Post by **britishmusketeer** » 07 Nov 2015, 14:01

rdx wrote:i think someone suggested that idea, about moving the shipment to age 4 in TAD. it really balances Otto.

Otto ff is already balanced. Especially with the silk road buff there is no reason to ever ff with otto.

_RDX_ · Post by **_RDX_** » 07 Nov 2015, 14:08

britishmusketeer wrote:
rdx wrote:i think someone suggested that idea, about moving the shipment to age 4 in TAD. it really balances Otto.
Otto ff is already balanced. Especially with the silk road buff there is no reason to ever ff with otto.

The question is when you have good and powerful units in age 2, also that silk road buff in age 1, why would you need 4 mames in age 3, which makes an imbalanced advantage for otto. when otto advances age 3, they have this option as an advantage. This was my question.

britishmusketeer · Post by **britishmusketeer** » 07 Nov 2015, 14:09

rdx wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:Otto ff is already balanced. Especially with the silk road buff there is no reason to ever ff with otto.
The question is when you have good and powerful units in age 2, also that silk road buff in age 1, why would you need 4 mames in age 3, which makes an imbalanced advantage for otto. when otto advances age 3, they have this option as an advantage. This was my question.

4 mams isnt that imbalanced.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 07 Nov 2015, 14:14

4 mams is on par with 6 stradiots, even slightly weaker in a straight up fight

Marco1698 · Post by **Marco1698** » 07 Nov 2015, 15:00

3 mams are fair. 4 mams makes otto still op. Anyway I won't pay 1000 gold for 3 mams, I think. Abus guns should be nerfed a bit, really Otto is unbeatable if played well. Jans abus is unstoppable

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 07 Nov 2015, 15:03

4 mames is okay. If we move mame shipment to age 4, ports have one less reason to win.

_DB_ · Post by **_DB_** » 07 Nov 2015, 15:06

marco1698 wrote:3 mams are fair. 4 mams makes otto still op. Anyway I won''t pay 1000 gold for 3 mams, I think. Abus guns should be nerfed a bit, really Otto is unbeatable if played well. Jans abus is unstoppable

3 mame is worse than 5 huss and 3 mahouts for 1k food because the fact that it cost 1k coin.

Abus gun should be nerfed. They don''t need the +2 range in veteran. So we''re giving a unit which is a cheat extra range with veteran upgrade, while EP is not doing anything for a strelet. It is unfair to buff abus range and do nothing to strelet.

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 07 Nov 2015, 15:25

Yea 4 mams is a fair shipment. You're essentially paying 500 resources per mam which seems about right of they're avaliable in fortress

zoom · Post by **zoom** » 07 Nov 2015, 17:45

marco1698 wrote:3 mams are fair. 4 mams makes otto still op. Anyway I won''t pay 1000 gold for 3 mams, I think. Abus guns should be nerfed a bit, really Otto is unbeatable if played well. Jans abus is unstoppable

Mamelukes are worth 650c each?

#brutal.

aoefan4life · Post by **aoefan4life** » 07 Nov 2015, 17:50

Mams just force you to make tons of anti cav ahead of time and they're still hard to kill lol

yurashic · Post by **yurashic** » 07 Nov 2015, 18:21

rdx wrote:
diarouga wrote:-1 mam is already a huge nerf, thats -1500 HP.
It is but for otto it isnt. the abus have 40 attack which is not bad for a skirm. 225 HP is fair for jans, With these units, still Otto enjoys 4 mames shipment. I need some brief about this really.

40 attack is good for abus, a lot of hp on jannisaries is good, 25 vills at 15 min is bad...

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 07 Nov 2015, 23:13

otto need nice shipments to balance their pathetic eco.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 08 Nov 2015, 00:34

subzero wrote:
marco1698 wrote:3 mams are fair. 4 mams makes otto still op. Anyway I wont pay 1000 gold for 3 mams, I think. Abus guns should be nerfed a bit, really Otto is unbeatable if played well. Jans abus is unstoppable
3 mame is worse than 5 huss and 3 mahouts for 1k food because the fact that it cost 1k coin.

Abus gun should be nerfed. They dont need the +2 range in veteran. So were giving a unit which is a cheat extra range with veteran upgrade, while EP is not doing anything for a strelet. It is unfair to buff abus range and do nothing to strelet.

the fact that you complain about strelets already shows me you dont know what you are talking about. probably, of any ranged unit besides abus, strelet is the one that needs the least buffing. its already a very good unit.

i would look at cetans, wakina, xbows and arqs before even thinking about patching strelets.

adderbrain5 · Post by **adderbrain5** » 08 Nov 2015, 01:37

i think if u were going to make it 4 u should have reduced it to 800 gold. 9 highlanders, 9 manchu, swiss pikemen still beats 4 mama I'm pretty sure. The standard for a merc shipment is 50% cheaper than saloon... who would ever ship 4 mama now...not as otto when u could just ship 5 spa hi

benj89 · Post by **benj89** » 08 Nov 2015, 01:40

I'm pretty sure 5 spahi beat 10 jaegers too, my 2 cents

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 08 Nov 2015, 02:24

adderbrain5 wrote:i think if u were going to make it 4 u should have reduced it to 800 gold. 9 highlanders, 9 manchu, swiss pikemen still beats 4 mama I''m pretty sure. The standard for a merc shipment is 50% cheaper than saloon... who would ever ship 4 mama now...not as otto when u could just ship 5 spa hi

your comparison is faulty. You compare two similair shipments, but then take one that counters the other and compare them in a fight. Thats not fair, manchus, highlanders and swiss are supposed to beat cav. If 5 mams were balanced, those are supposed to annihilate it.

Point is, you adapt your army to the shipments, so youre gonna have ranged inf, anti cav and cav in a nice balance, so comparing units with units that are supposed to counter them.

What is a fact is that the 5 mams are a much stronger cav shipment than those other shipments you listed are anti cav shipments. 5 mams are like 3 or 4 times as good as 5 hussars, while you could say 9 manchu is more like 2-3 times as good as 5 goons.

gibson · Post by **gibson** » 08 Nov 2015, 02:27

benj89 wrote:I''m pretty sure 5 spahi beat 10 jaegers too, my 2 cents

With ease

forgrin · Post by **forgrin** » 08 Nov 2015, 04:26

The problem with mams is it basically forces you to always have 20 goons ready for them, because if they pop and you're out of anticav you're gonna lose the fight really hard. When 5 mams pop it's pretty much 20 huss worth of HP/meatshield for your army, obviously with less attack but it still can turn fights quite decisively as long as the player with mams has heavy damage units left to pair with them. If you win the fight with most of your mams still alive, there's pretty much no way your opponent can get enough anticav back to stop you before you just roll over his vills and win. Reducing 5 mams to 4 makes the shipment still strong, but less game deciding.

ESOC

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