What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

User avatar
India _RDX_
Lancer
Posts: 738
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
ESO: _RDX_

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by _RDX_ »

Really, i never wondered about reducing -1 mame in the age 3 shipment, Anyways thanks for explaining, Umeu, Diarouga, DB and Forgin :) 4 mames really doesn't imbalance otto. I have tested it just now. On both online and bots. I hope that stretlet should have added range. Atleast +2? we can get the result of a perfect and balanced russia
oranges.
User avatar
New Zealand ocemilky
Dragoon
Posts: 205
Joined: Aug 5, 2015
ESO: Motch | Milky__

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by ocemilky »

16 range strelets in age 2 might be a bit too much. maybe if it was attached to their vet upgrade or strelet card or AA or something that could be cool
sergyou wrote:i won't even bother reply to ur posts anymore and id like u to the same and not quote me
howlingwolfpaw wrote:cognitive dissonance is what people suffer from when refusing to look at 9/11 truth.
You have not set your flag, click to select your flag. Marco1698

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Marco1698 »

subzero wrote:
marco1698 wrote:3 mams are fair. 4 mams makes otto still op. Anyway I wont pay 1000 gold for 3 mams, I think. Abus guns should be nerfed a bit, really Otto is unbeatable if played well. Jans abus is unstoppable
3 mame is worse than 5 huss and 3 mahouts for 1k food because the fact that it cost 1k coin.?

Abus gun should be nerfed. They dont need the +2 range in veteran. So were giving a unit which is a cheat extra range with veteran upgrade, while EP is not doing anything for a strelet. It is unfair to buff abus range and do nothing to strelet.?


3 mams is not worse than 5huss
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Dsy »

4 mams is pretty balanced. Its equal with 6 stradiots... So its okey with 1000 gold price i think.
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by _DB_ »

marco1698 wrote:
subzero wrote:3 mame is worse than 5 huss and 3 mahouts for 1k food because the fact that it cost 1k coin.

Abus gun should be nerfed. They dont need the +2 range in veteran. So were giving a unit which is a cheat extra range with veteran upgrade, while EP is not doing anything for a strelet. It is unfair to buff abus range and do nothing to strelet.

3 mams is not worse than 5huss
If it cost 1k coin it is.

Why would you even pay 1k coin for 3 mames if you can get 5 free huss?
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
You have not set your flag, click to select your flag. Marco1698

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Marco1698 »

subzero wrote:
marco1698 wrote:3 mams is not worse than 5huss
If it cost 1k coin it is.?

Why would you even pay 1k coin for 3 mames if you can get 5 free huss?

okay I got the point. I meant as good card or not, not the cost
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by _DB_ »

marco1698 wrote:
subzero wrote:If it cost 1k coin it is.

Why would you even pay 1k coin for 3 mames if you can get 5 free huss?
okay I got the point. I meant as good card or not, not the cost
Yeah exactly. 3 Mames beat 5 huss in combat ofc, but I meant it isnt better that 5 huss in terms of cost efficiency of the card.
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
User avatar
United States of America Papist
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mar 29, 2015
ESO: Papist

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Papist »

rdx wrote:Really, i never wondered about reducing -1 mame in the age 3 shipment, Anyways thanks for explaining, Umeu, Diarouga, DB and Forgin :) 4 mames really doesn''t imbalance otto. I have tested it just now. On both online and bots. I hope that stretlet should have added range. Atleast +2? we can get the result of a perfect and balanced russia



If you boost their range, you will need to increase strelets cost to keep them balanced. 40 resources for a unit with the stats of a skirm is OP.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
User avatar
No Flag Good ol Ivan
Howdah
Posts: 1345
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: ivanelterrible

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Good ol Ivan »

I kinda begin wondering whether 5 spahi for 1000 food is better than the 4 mams. In fact even 6 stradiots seems like a better choice (test 4 mams vs 6 stradiots in scen editor). Even if neither of those units have the meatshield power/value mams do.

In addition to removing 1 mam from the shipment, I would reduce shipment cost from 1000 coin to 800 coin.
Each mam costs 400 coin, making the shipment worth only 600 res (which is the standart for colonial, but not for fort).
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467
Joined: Mar 4, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by mongobillione »

benj89 wrote:I''m pretty sure 5 spahi beat 10 jaegers too, my 2 cents
food is more easy waste than gold so if i get to choose thw nap and lets say 200 wood on top with jaegers shooting behind 3 walls.. no wait spahi still win..
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467
Joined: Mar 4, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by mongobillione »

ivan wrote:I kinda begin wondering whether 5 spahi for 1000 food is better than the 4 mams. In fact even 6 stradiots seems like a better choice (test 4 mams vs 6 stradiots in scen editor). Even if neither of those units have the meatshield power/value mams do.

In addition to removing 1 mam from the shipment, I would reduce shipment cost from 1000 coin to 800 coin.
Each mam costs 400 coin, making the shipment worth only 600 res (which is the standart for colonial, but not for fort).

to be fair :)... mams is still age 4 unit.. and sometimes a tanky unit is much healthier to.. 4 mams imo is just fine
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467
Joined: Mar 4, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by mongobillione »

if strelet get 2 more range, jeesus
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ivan wrote:I kinda begin wondering whether 5 spahi for 1000 food is better than the 4 mams. In fact even 6 stradiots seems like a better choice (test 4 mams vs 6 stradiots in scen editor). Even if neither of those units have the meatshield power/value mams do.

In addition to removing 1 mam from the shipment, I would reduce shipment cost from 1000 coin to 800 coin.
Each mam costs 400 coin, making the shipment worth only 600 res (which is the standart for colonial, but not for fort).

1mam costs 400c but we all know it is worth 4-5huss (800-1000ressources).
User avatar
No Flag Good ol Ivan
Howdah
Posts: 1345
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: ivanelterrible

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Good ol Ivan »

diarouga wrote:
ivan wrote:I kinda begin wondering whether 5 spahi for 1000 food is better than the 4 mams. In fact even 6 stradiots seems like a better choice (test 4 mams vs 6 stradiots in scen editor). Even if neither of those units have the meatshield power/value mams do.

In addition to removing 1 mam from the shipment, I would reduce shipment cost from 1000 coin to 800 coin.
Each mam costs 400 coin, making the shipment worth only 600 res (which is the standart for colonial, but not for fort).

1mam costs 400c but we all know it is worth 4-5huss (800-1000ressources).
Merc units in fortress are slightly more valuable than their cost suggests, yes. Nevertheless 3 huss can beat 1 mam, so I wouldnt place their value that highly.

Lets look at other mercs. 1 stradiot can beat 2 unupgraded huss. If you place a mams value in 4-5 huss, it only makes sense to consider a stradiot 3-4 huss.
6 stradiots should be worth ~21 huss (for 1000 coin). Pretty nice deal, yet its not a card I see often in otto or spanish decks.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

3-4 huss not 4-5, sorry.
So a 5mam shipment is 16-20 huss. A stradiot is 2huss so 6 stradiot=12-15huss, while you can have 10 huss with 1k c+5huss but you don t need to wait so that s k.
No Flag mongobillione
Dragoon
Donator 02
Posts: 467
Joined: Mar 4, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by mongobillione »

u sure a stradiot is 2 huss?
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by zoom »

I'd say it's a fair estimate. Naturally all units are more or less different. Stradiots are fast as shit and have 30% RR as well...
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by momuuu »

I think the stradiot shipment is probably one of the better merc shipments.

But mams really are OP for their cost. Just look at the mongo10 vs samwise12 game (third or fourth game iirc, a china mirror) of summer championship. The mams absolutely destroy to a point where full mam seemed to be the optimal composition.
User avatar
India _RDX_
Lancer
Posts: 738
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
ESO: _RDX_

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by _RDX_ »

papist wrote:
rdx wrote:Really, i never wondered about reducing -1 mame in the age 3 shipment, Anyways thanks for explaining, Umeu, Diarouga, DB and Forgin :) 4 mames really doesnt imbalance otto. I have tested it just now. On both online and bots. I hope that stretlet should have added range. Atleast +2? we can get the result of a perfect and balanced russia

If you boost their range, you will need to increase strelets cost to keep them balanced. 40 resources for a unit with the stats of a skirm is OP.
Its true while youve just 48 resources and good skirm type is OP. But russia isnt OP and also needs it. we may think of comparing the cost and effectiveness of a unit. why dont you assume as a block? Russia always trains in blocks. so you cost 480 of resources for this unit which dies easily and takes up pop. youve to keep building houses to train them. cozz each unit takes one pop as they are 10, houses support the same 10 pop. And for each stretlet block you spend 100 wood which is slow to gather. where you need +50 wood to build a blockhouse, and to spam bunch of strets, also stables and houses.the 5 pop which blockhouse supports becomes useless, as you wont keep building it above 2 of numbers. Also for another stret block you spend 480+480= 960 of res. Even 3 cuirs, which beat 20 strets dont cost this much. This why russia is imbalanced. Instead of changing the whole damn thing, giving +2 range for strets is not wrong. But if you increase the cost, increase only on food like 45 f and 10 w for each stret. Comparing the unit with the civ is more better than comparing their cost and effectiveness.
oranges.
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by Dsy »

Strelets are one of the strongest units ingame (price/value). Plus you can train them in age2, plus they cost no coin (which is matter a lot lategame when civs runs out coin mines), plus they have multiplier vs heavy inf, plus they are in big numbers and no area damage cav needs a lot of time to kill them (which is very important again if russia has anti cav no need to micro good cause 4-5 strelets die just doenst matter) plus they have speed advantage which helps them kiting more than any light inf.
I dont understand why should it be more op...
User avatar
Great Britain britishmusketeer
Howdah
Posts: 1845
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by britishmusketeer »

ivan wrote:
diarouga wrote:1mam costs 400c but we all know it is worth 4-5huss (800-1000ressources).
Merc units in fortress are slightly more valuable than their cost suggests, yes. Nevertheless 3 huss can beat 1 mam, so I wouldnt place their value that highly.

Lets look at other mercs. 1 stradiot can beat 2 unupgraded huss. If you place a mams value in 4-5 huss, it only makes sense to consider a stradiot 3-4 huss.
6 stradiots should be worth ~21 huss (for 1000 coin). Pretty nice deal, yet its not a card I see often in otto or spanish decks.

You cant test how good cav is by having it fight other cav. The strength of mams is the high hp low damage mechanic which is perfect for cav and also the ridiculous 40% rr.
User avatar
Great Britain britishmusketeer
Howdah
Posts: 1845
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by britishmusketeer »

rdx wrote:
papist wrote:If you boost their range, you will need to increase strelets cost to keep them balanced. 40 resources for a unit with the stats of a skirm is OP.
Its true while youve just 48 resources and good skirm type is OP. But russia isnt OP and also needs it. we may think of comparing the cost and effectiveness of a unit. why dont you assume as a block? Russia always trains in blocks. so you cost 480 of resources for this unit which dies easily and takes up pop. youve to keep building houses to train them. cozz each unit takes one pop as they are 10, houses support the same 10 pop. And for each stretlet block you spend 100 wood which is slow to gather. where you need +50 wood to build a blockhouse, and to spam bunch of strets, also stables and houses.the 5 pop which blockhouse supports becomes useless, as you wont keep building it above 2 of numbers. Also for another stret block you spend 480+480= 960 of res. Even 3 cuirs, which beat 20 strets dont cost this much. This why russia is imbalanced. Instead of changing the whole damn thing, giving +2 range for strets is not wrong. But if you increase the cost, increase only on food like 45 f and 10 w for each stret. Comparing the unit with the civ is more better than comparing their cost and effectiveness.


Even if Russia was weak, Im pretty sure we have enough Russia is weak threads.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

What's wrong with the 5 mameluke shipment?

Post by zoom »

It has one Mameluke too many.

/thread

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV