pecelot wrote:Goons' only counter are skirms, which still have only 1.05 multiplier against them, bearing in mind all the tags. Later on, goons also annihilate musks, for instance with their additional 2 range.
Exactly, goon is op unit in right sense of word. Wouldn't mind nerfing them, even at the cost of changing meta. Almost all fortress age battles evolve around skirm/goon clashes with slight variations. Really, it has become too restrictive and boring. I know its most effective combo, but still, we need some change.
pecelot wrote:Goons' only counter are skirms, which still have only 1.05 multiplier against them, bearing in mind all the tags. Later on, goons also annihilate musks, for instance with their additional 2 range.
If you take ranged resist into account, then you must also take into account that goons have a 0.7 multiplier against skirms... One shouldn't calculate like that imo But yeah I agree that goons are a bit too good overall. Skirms aren't their only counter tho, musks are approx as good as skirms to kill goons, except range obviously (and yes it's a big deal).
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
No, because goons aren't supposed to counter skirms. Skirms weaknesses are mainly melee cav, and they indeed drop like flies in such a fight. Goons, however, don't get countered hard whatsoever by their counter unit, the skirm. They even do decent against them, dealing — as you mentioned — 70% of their damage.
pecelot wrote:No, because goons aren't supposed to counter skirms. Skirms weaknesses are mainly melee cav, and they indeed drop like flies in such a fight. Goons, however, don't get countered hard whatsoever by their counter unit, the skirm. They even do decent against them, dealing — as you mentioned — 70% of their damage.
That's just the way the unit is designed... Goons aren't hard countered by anything, but they don't hard counter anything either. They deal decent dps to cav at range, but nothing incredible compared to heavy inf really. 1 normal musk in melee mode deals as much dps to cav as 1 vet goon does... And if you take the range resist into account, a musk deals even more dps than a goon. So yeah, goons are polyvalent because they are fast, they tank decently, they deal decent damage, but they aren't supposed to hard counter/get hard countered. I know they are too strong tho, I'm not saying goons suck.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Not sure whether you can compare goons dealing range damage to hand cav to musks' melee DPS. Goons can hit and run for some time before they get caught because of their speed, musks, however, deal melee damage pretty rarely — cavalry can quickly retreat in such cases. Although goons don't counter anything that hard (I'd still say they do really well against hand cav), they are better than every other unit because they just don't lose hard to anything as well (maybe except from mass skirms). That's the problem IMO, though you seem to realize that, too. We shouldn't argue then anymore tbh
Yes I know what makes goons so powerful is their mobility and versatility. Was just saying they don't really hard counter cav, just like they don't really get hard countered. But yea we kinda agree anyway
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
pecelot wrote:No, because goons aren't supposed to counter skirms. Skirms weaknesses are mainly melee cav, and they indeed drop like flies in such a fight. Goons, however, don't get countered hard whatsoever by their counter unit, the skirm. They even do decent against them, dealing — as you mentioned — 70% of their damage.
That's just the way the unit is designed... Goons aren't hard countered by anything, but they don't hard counter anything either. They deal decent dps to cav at range, but nothing incredible compared to heavy inf really. 1 normal musk in melee mode deals as much dps to cav as 1 vet goon does... And if you take the range resist into account, a musk deals even more dps than a goon. So yeah, goons are polyvalent because they are fast, they tank decently, they deal decent damage, but they aren't supposed to hard counter/get hard countered. I know they are too strong tho, I'm not saying goons suck.
Kaiserklein wrote:Yes I know what makes goons so powerful is their mobility and versatility. Was just saying they don't really hard counter cav, just like they don't really get hard countered. But yea we kinda agree anyway
they definitely hard counter cav, they just are not as powerful and beefy as heavy infantry, that is because they trade attack and hitpoints for speed. but 3.5 multiplier, dealt at range even, is most definitely a hard counter. if you wouldve said they dont hard counter cannons, i wouldve agreed.
Well since cav > goon if you don't hit and run, I don't call that a hard counter... They deal damage with 3 multiplier, and cav always has like 20 or 30% rr, and the basis damage goons deal is pretty low. As I said, 1 normal meleed musk deals more dps to cav than 1 vet goon does. The strength of goons are the fact they have a multiplier at range (unlike musks) and their mobility, but their stats are nothing special otherwise
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
