Bug Fixes for the ESOC Patch

[iNcog]

what are 6, 7, 58 and 102?

[zoom]

Please refer to the "spoiler" in the OP.

[iCourt]

Some of these should really be discussed among the patch team on the proper way to amend some of these changes, particularly the ones that can effect balance.

8. Should effect all fishing boats, but to be honest I've never tried with TAD or Native civs. I'll look into that.

88. I think it was just something that was overlooked by ES, considering all the ranged cavalry options now available in colonial due to the expansion Civilizations.

96. The card I believe was intended to only affect Skirmisher type units. If you made it so it effects ranged infantry it would grant boosts to muskets, tomahawks, and I think explorers. You'd ideally want this to effect individual units to get the proper results.

I'll add the Pikeman multiplier to the list. Even if we decide to leave it, it's good to have it documented.

[momuuu]

I can imagine 88 being the case because WW have 16 range which could've been considered problematic for colonial. Agree that 96 should be fixed, the "can have unintentional effects" is just bullshit.

Also, 102 should be fixed. Team 5 manchu is a sick shipment I think, I've seen quite a lot of chinese players use that in 3v3 already.

[iCourt]

Still need more discussion on some of the changes. I don't want it to be all Ryan's decisions when a few could use some healthy discussion even from outside the patch team.

[deleted_user]

I didn't even know 99% of these existed outside this post.

[zoom]

I didn't even know 99% of these existed outside this post.

My figure is something like 75%.

[zoom]

Some of these should really be discussed among the patch team on the proper way to amend some of these changes, particularly the ones that can effect balance.

8. Should effect all fishing boats, but to be honest I've never tried with TAD or Native civs. I'll look into that.

88. I think it was just something that was overlooked by ES, considering all the ranged cavalry options now available in colonial due to the expansion Civilizations.

96. The card I believe was intended to only affect Skirmisher type units. If you made it so it effects ranged infantry it would grant boosts to muskets, tomahawks, and I think explorers. You'd ideally want this to effect individual units to get the proper results.

I'll add the Pikeman multiplier to the list. Even if we decide to leave it, it's good to have it documented.

88: Quite the opposite, rather: Eagle Runner Knights and War Wagons are the only light cavalry units that lack Colonial-Age based statistics. They would be vastly overpowered if made available in the Colonial Age. On top of that, Nobles Hut is not buildable in the Colonial Age (although there would be no issue involved in having the shipment change this). In practical terms, as soon as Herr Mankl comes to his senses and implements the following change, this not-so-buggy "bug" can be fixed:

– Cassador, Cuirassier (including Consulate "Gendarme" version), Eagle Runner Knight, Halberdier, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Lancer (including Consulate "Garrochista" version), Oprichnik, Spahi and War Wagon all given Colonial Age base stats; these units now scale as intended.

96: I think that is incorrect. The card is intended to affect all ranged infantry. In fact, it currently does affect Musketeers, Crossbowmen, etc. With this in mind, again: Simply set the only effect of the card to the "ranged infantry" tag.

[momuuu]

Some of these should really be discussed among the patch team on the proper way to amend some of these changes, particularly the ones that can effect balance.

8. Should effect all fishing boats, but to be honest I've never tried with TAD or Native civs. I'll look into that.

88. I think it was just something that was overlooked by ES, considering all the ranged cavalry options now available in colonial due to the expansion Civilizations.

96. The card I believe was intended to only affect Skirmisher type units. If you made it so it effects ranged infantry it would grant boosts to muskets, tomahawks, and I think explorers. You'd ideally want this to effect individual units to get the proper results.

I'll add the Pikeman multiplier to the list. Even if we decide to leave it, it's good to have it documented.

88: Quite the opposite, rather: Eagle Runner Knights and War Wagons are the only light cavalry units that lack Colonial-Age based statistics. They would be vastly overpowered if made available in the Colonial Age. On top of that, Nobles Hut is not buildable in the Colonial Age (although there would be no issue involved in having the shipment change this). In practical terms, as soon as Herr Mankl comes to his senses and implements the following change, this not-so-buggy "bug" can be fixed:

– Cassador, Cuirassier (including Consulate "Gendarme" version), Eagle Runner Knight, Halberdier, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Lancer (including Consulate "Garrochista" version), Oprichnik, Spahi and War Wagon all given Colonial Age base stats; these units now scale as intended.

96: I think that is incorrect. The card is intended to affect all ranged infantry. In fact, it currently does affect Musketeers, Crossbowmen, etc. With this in mind, again: Simply set the only effect of the card to the "ranged infantry" tag.

The bug claimed it affected stuff like cav archers because those have the archer tag.

Also yes please fix the scaling bug.

[zoom]

Exacty; so simply remove every effect of the card (including "archer") except for "ranged infantry".

Problum??

[iCourt]

I was confusing that card with the long range hit point card France has. This is something I would have probably caught when looking into it further. Simply targeting ranged infantry should solve the problem.

I'll add the scaling bug to the list.

I think I took the Noble Hut change into account with the ERK, the veteran statistics however I did not.

[iNcog]

Still need more discussion on some of the changes. I don't want it to be all Ryan's decisions when a few could use some healthy discussion even from outside the patch team.

lol

[zoom]

...
57: All ranged infantry should have an 0.75 multiplier against "coyoteman". Are you saying there is something more than that?
...

[forgrin]

...
57: All ranged infantry should have an 0.75 multiplier against "coyoteman". Are you saying there is something more than that?
...

That sounds intentional to me, since they are countered less by traditional anticav.

[pecelot]

Well, I don't agree with the way the decisions are made here. In my opinion even if something is a bug that can affect the game pretty drastically, it should be fixed anyways. The proper way should be: fixing the bugs --> balancing the game, not: balancing the game --> fixing some bugs, but also leaving some of them because they can have „unintentional effects". For example, bug number 6:

6. Changdao Swordsman attack doesn't properly decrease in cover mode. (Exploitable) -"This one is exploitable, people already put them in cover mode though, part of me doesn’t want to touch this because it could make a big difference.

I mean, why wouldn't you fix that? It's a bug that should simply be fixed. And actually, in terms of game balance, if that should be taken into account, Chinese melee units in cover mode are already a great problem to deal with and IMO it is abused.

Same goes with the rotator mod. Undoubtedly it should be implemented in the game since it's a pretty basic tool, already enabled in editor and really useful in a real game. Just for some reason, pretty illogical I would assume, buildings can't be rotated in a match. And although I can see some sense in the explaination that it shouldn't been allowed in the tournaments because people who have it gain a big advantage over people who don't, right now we have the EP which can consist of such a patch to make it available for everyone!

EDIT:

We also found out with ovi that spies/ninjas lose only approx 100 hp when they get crackshot by an explorer, instead of dying... Weird shit

They have *0.01 multiplier against them, which is not that bad I guess, since Ninjas and Spies should counter the Explorer.

[iCourt]

I just fix what I'm told to. If there is overwhelming support for a changes I'll definitely consider implementing it so long as the patch team believes it to be ok.

I for one think the flags should be fixed image wise and the ESOC maps given proper images. So I do disagree with the "no" given to those changes.

[iNcog]

71. Explorer Revive using hotkeys. (Solution change tactics for explorer to new custom tactics that are exactly the same with no hotkeys attached to them. This means all units except explorers will have unit tactic and explorers will no longer revive. Bug is present in Vanilla as well if you add hotkeys to the explorers. Only possible way is to remove hotkeys to the units in the .bar file.) (Recommended Change) (Exploitable) -Won't be able to discuss this.

Can this really be fixed? Wow??

OK, so I took the time to actually read the damn OP, and now I love what I'm seeing. Many of the changes are welcome bug fixes, but a lot of them are also quality of life changes which I'm really interesting in seeing implemented. It kind of annoys me to see so much work being labeled as "unnecessary". I really think that the ESOC patch should be looking to implement changes which include quality of life. These are changes which the actual devs would probably have done if they had had the time to do so. These are changes which will change the feel of the game in a way which makes it better. I 150% support these changes and I think that the community should take the time look them over and decide for themselves whether or not they want these changes implemented as well. These are some very cool changes and I'd like to see them in the patch:

117. English copies of TAD civilizations use a pseudo-Mandarin, pseudo-Farsi and pseudo-Nihongo voices for all current sound files. When the game was released in Japan and China ES re-recorded all the unit voices using actual Japanese and Chinese voice actors. (Solution use sound files from those copies of the game to give units proper languages. TWC civs and India have no solutions for proper voice overs.) (Debatable change) -"Change to games feel would be too large"

118. TWC and TAD were released with low resolution flag icons. While at release the resolution was unnoticeable, with newer screens it's easy to notice how poor in quality these flags are compared to the Vanilla flag icons. Same applies to revolution flags. (Solution is to retexture and skin the current icons, or use "HD flag" mods that currently exist. Using mod would save hours of work since the results would be virtually identical.) (Debatable change) -"Not necessary really" -I actually would recommend this. It doesn't effect gameplay but it does improve the overall look of the game.

It's important to remember that the patch is a product. This means that people are able to choose for themselves whether or not they want to play on the patch. Especially important is the fact that the default choice as of right now is to NOT download the patch. This is unfortunate and it's due to several factors imo. First off, the balance changes are a step in the right direction, so I can't really say it's those. I think it's that people want something other than just balance changes and they aren't getting them with the current patch. You need to give people more incentives to play on the patch and the kind of bug fixes which iCourt has taken the time (seriously, there are OVER 100) to list and fix on his side are the ones which should be included in the patch, at least imo. Agra fort hotkeys and stuff like that no-brainer changes. Let's have them, please. Remember that right now anything and everything which can incite players to use the patch should be implemented into the patch.

I would personally be very disappointed if these changes weren't implemented in the next patch iteration. Unfortunately, there's also the issue that no one knows when the hell the next version will be out, when people will be able to play it. We don't even know if it'll come at all or if it'll be veto'd by a few select people or something. What about an open beta or something? Is there a closed beta being tested right now? More transparency, please.

Personally I'm laying off AoE3 until the next patch is out. I think many people are in the same boat as me which is why it's important that the patch team wakes up a little. ASC Winter is now over, so it's the perfect time to roll out some new things.

[iCourt]

The closed beta with balance and the crossed out bug changes was implemented I think on Thursday. A server crash was keeping the launcher from updating... Basically we just started. So no release date currently sorry.

I think people are a little burned out on the game too... Which is only natural when such a huge and well organized tournament just concluded.

--Edit:

Just my stance on a few changes that were given a "no".

For instance here is a side by side comparison of the flags when you just clean up the image. It is still (more in common) in the same style as all the vanilla flags, and it isn't a big change. It's totally quality of life, but it is something that presents a better product.

[zoom]

I agree wholly with Pecelot, and partly with Incog.

[pecelot]

I wasn't planning to offend anybody, just to express my opinion. I don't agree with the text in italics in the OP mainly, I don't know who wrote it.
And damn that Japanese flag is so refreshed! Imagine that flag switch between fortress and industrial age — once you aged to IV, you get that new bad-ass flag.

[iCourt]

The text in the italics is _H2O's comments. I should make that more clear in the OP.

[pecelot]

No need I feel, somehow figured it out, but just wasn't sure. Of course he has greater authority and so on, don't wanna argue, but still I think it shouldn't be made that way.

[zoom]

It shouldn't.

[g06092]

One bug from me: Villagers training time bug after Jesuit's tech which reduces training time by 15%. The problem is that Russia's villagers train time is on the base of a normal villager(25 sec). Then the 52.5 sec training time (70% of 3 villagers time which is 75sec) is reduced by 15% of 25 and not by 15% of 52.5 (or perhaps stack up with Russia's bonus and get in total to 45% time decrease). In other words the expected time after the upgrade is 44.625 but in fact it is 48.75. The best way to fix IMO should be to make Russia villagers with train time of 52.5sec or 75sec and start with 30% decrease to their base train time.
This but is also applicable to the Medicine shipment which does exactly the same and has exactly the same issue. In fact if there are any other ways to updade the train time it's probably wrong. Should look around for other similar issues.

[Kaiserklein]

171. – Cassador, Cuirassier (including Consulate "Gendarme" version), Eagle Runner Knight, Halberdier, Jaguar Prowl Knight, Lancer (including Consulate "Garrochista" version), Oprichnik, Spahi and War Wagon scale using veteran statistics as opposed to colonial statistics.

Is this really a bug ? It's quite well-known but I don't think people consider it as a bug