Walls

[Dsy]

I start this topic because im curious about what patch makers and others thinks about the walls price/value ratio.

I think walls are totally broken in this game.
Why do i say that:
5 walls with deleted segments can cover the path in an outpost's line of sight for 25 wood while the outpost costs 250 wood.

Compare Walls to Outpost:
Outpost: some attack damage, can garrison villagers, can be used for shipments, cant block the way
Walls: Totally blocks the way. You can use it for defend villagers from raids, cut off your opponent from resources. Plus its a huge tactical advantage if your opponent needs to seige down walls. In time they could do that they lose lot of army which is a huge deal compere to they destroy walls that worth 15 wood in current meta. Losing 1 pike in a siege hurts 5 times more (80 resources) than losing 3 walls (15 resources). And usually siege player lose like 500-1000 res in siege (5-10 units, if no more). Even if opponent doesnt need to siege down and can go around the time they running (in 5 walls) costs minimum 1 hussars (costs 200 res) and i havent talked about that his army split (meele cav left the others behind to go around which is again a Huge tactical adv for waller). They have plus the biggest upgrade capacity ingame.

In my comparison 5 walls are definitely can be same strong as an outpost (i think they are even stronger) but they costs 10 times less.

Walls should be fixed in ESOC patch as soon as its possible. I know its hard to fix because of the delete glitch which makes walling more difficult.
Is there way to give different price to wall segments than stacks? If its possible its easily fixable by let the segments cost 5 wood and increase only the stacks ones. They worth 45 wood at least (with 3000 health).

What happens when we increase hugely the walls price?
In most of high level games nothing happens (they dont use walls anyways). In some cases game becomes more action and micro heavy which increase the skill gap between players. Being good player requires good unit control (much more enjoyable for spectators aswell). It allows you to make lategame timing (no 200 walls to delay timing) maybe even in age 4. It allows the players to play more eco heavy (no fear about game change into infinity resources). So basicly it opens the gate for a lot of good staffs and makes gameplay much more exciting (cant avoid fighting with units which can be risky) with micro and harder decisions (what units to make, how do you use them).

So yeah, what do you think about walls?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Walls got nerfed in the fp, weren't you aware?

[britishmusketeer]

I think they are still too strong though. Like in garja vs dyddy, garja demostrated that sieging the walls with units behind is simply not possible, there was no way garja could win unless he adapted his build into an eco one from the start after seeing the walls. And it only cost 50w lol...

[Dsy]

I think they are still too strong though. Like in garja vs dyddy, garja demostrated that sieging the walls with units behind is simply not possible, there was no way garja could win unless he adapted his build into an eco one from the start after seeing the walls. And it only cost 50w lol...

Thats what im talking about. His whole wall costed like 250 wood (with gates) but thx for it in the fight he killed like 11 units which cost 1100 resoruces plus could rebuild his 3 lost walls with 15 wood and he is unraidable/unattackable again. And just imgegine if dyddi build 1 outpost instead of walls what happens... Its totally broken in price/value ratio.

[thebritish]

I think they are still too strong though. Like in garja vs dyddy, garja demostrated that sieging the walls with units behind is simply not possible, there was no way garja could win unless he adapted his build into an eco one from the start after seeing the walls. And it only cost 50w lol...

Thats what im talking about. His whole wall costed like 250 wood (with gates) but thx for it in the fight he killed like 11 units which cost 1100 resoruces plus could rebuild his 3 lost walls with 15 wood and he is unraidable/unattackable again. And just imgegine if dyddi build 1 outpost instead of walls what happens... Its totally broken in price/value ratio.

Still, nobody makes them

[Dsy]

I think they are still too strong though. Like in garja vs dyddy, garja demostrated that sieging the walls with units behind is simply not possible, there was no way garja could win unless he adapted his build into an eco one from the start after seeing the walls. And it only cost 50w lol...

Thats what im talking about. His whole wall costed like 250 wood (with gates) but thx for it in the fight he killed like 11 units which cost 1100 resoruces plus could rebuild his 3 lost walls with 15 wood and he is unraidable/unattackable again. And just imgegine if dyddi build 1 outpost instead of walls what happens... Its totally broken in price/value ratio.

Still, nobody makes them

Lot of players using walls. They arent in highlight doesnt mean they dont exist.

[Hazza54321]

the problem is that theyre still too cheap especially with deleting the pillars, fucking 50w for a full wall and an extra 2mins to boom? fucking stupid really

[thebritish]

Show hidden quotes

I think they are still too strong though. Like in garja vs dyddy, garja demostrated that sieging the walls with units behind is simply not possible, there was no way garja could win unless he adapted his build into an eco one from the start after seeing the walls. And it only cost 50w lol...

Thats what im talking about. His whole wall costed like 250 wood (with gates) but thx for it in the fight he killed like 11 units which cost 1100 resoruces plus could rebuild his 3 lost walls with 15 wood and he is unraidable/unattackable again. And just imgegine if dyddi build 1 outpost instead of walls what happens... Its totally broken in price/value ratio.

Still, nobody makes them

Lot of players using walls. They arent in highlight doesnt mean they dont exist.

I have never seen anybody below PR30 to build a single wall before the first 10 minutes, or if he is not being all in rushed

[britishmusketeer]

I have never seen anybody below PR30 to build a single wall before the first 10 minutes, or if he is not being all in rushed

You obviously haven't played/seen alot of games then.

[Kaiserklein]

I start this topic because im curious about what patch makers and others thinks about the walls price/value ratio.

I think walls are totally broken in this game.
Why do i say that:
5 walls with deleted segments can cover the path in an outpost's line of sight for 25 wood while the outpost costs 250 wood.

Compare Walls to Outpost:
Outpost: some attack damage, can garrison villagers, can be used for shipments, cant block the way
Walls: Totally blocks the way. You can use it for defend villagers from raids, cut off your opponent from resources. Plus its a huge tactical advantage if your opponent needs to seige down walls. In time they could do that they lose lot of army which is a huge deal compere to they destroy walls that worth 15 wood in current meta. Losing 1 pike in a siege hurts 5 times more (80 resources) than losing 3 walls (15 resources). And usually siege player lose like 500-1000 res in siege (5-10 units, if no more). Even if opponent doesnt need to siege down and can go around the time they running (in 5 walls) costs minimum 1 hussars (costs 200 res) and i havent talked about that his army split (meele cav left the others behind to go around which is again a Huge tactical adv for waller). They have plus the biggest upgrade capacity ingame.

In my comparison 5 walls are definitely can be same strong as an outpost (i think they are even stronger) but they costs 10 times less.

Walls should be fixed in ESOC patch as soon as its possible. I know its hard to fix because of the delete glitch which makes walling more difficult.
Is there way to give different price to wall segments than stacks? If its possible its easily fixable by let the segments cost 5 wood and increase only the stacks ones. They worth 45 wood at least (with 3000 health).

What happens when we increase hugely the walls price?
In most of high level games nothing happens (they dont use walls anyways). In some cases game becomes more action and micro heavy which increase the skill gap between players. Being good player requires good unit control (much more enjoyable for spectators aswell). It allows you to make lategame timing (no 200 walls to delay timing) maybe even in age 4. It allows the players to play more eco heavy (no fear about game change into infinity resources). So basicly it opens the gate for a lot of good staffs and makes gameplay much more exciting (cant avoid fighting with units which can be risky) with micro and harder decisions (what units to make, how do you use them).

So yeah, what do you think about walls?

I don't think the comparison between outposts and walls is relevant because of multiple reasons (LOS, garrisoning vils, being able to shoot, shipments...), but yeah I think walls are still annoying. We should play on other things to nerf them than just hp, because they can still block very efficiently, and give you enough free kills to be worth it. There are several possible nerfs : making them slower to build, giving them a limit (to prevent walls spamming and encourage strategic walls), making them available in colonial (to avoid people walling up completely in discovery, and again encourage small walls)... Or then you can play on hp/cost but I think that's hard to balance

[sdsanft]

If you make the build time for walls longer and add a build limit, it would make players have to plan when and where to build walls, instead of just building them as a reaction to a raid. It would also make booms more vulnerable, and force players to actually make an army.

[91]

I honestly wouldn't mind making wall segments cost like 25 wood each, and poles 5 wood. I mean look at how many walls you get for 100 wood. Is there a reason NOT to build random walls everywhere? in midgame I do not think so. The only reason people don't use them is because it's time consuming to build them.

Walling in should be an investment of resources, not only time imo.

[sdsanft]

I honestly wouldn't mind making wall segments cost like 25 wood each, and poles 5 wood. I mean look at how many walls you get for 100 wood. Is there a reason NOT to build random walls everywhere? in midgame I do not think so. The only reason people don't use them is because it's time consuming to build them.

Walling in should be an investment of resources, not only time imo.

Thats a good point. I just think walls should be strategically placed, and an investment of time and resources would make them less spammable, as well as a build limit.

[yemshi]

I'd have no problem with walls costing 5w and having 5k HP rightaway.

[Dsy]

"making wall segments cost like 25 wood each, and poles 5 wood"
Its good price with 1500 health.

Main question can programmers ceperate the cost of segments and poles?

[rickytickitembo]

It would probably be a bit more tricky to implement but an exponentially growing cost for walls would be great. Say after spending 150 on wood that same quantity would now cost 300 wood or something along those lines.

I think it's fine if people make 1 wall barrier (still boring but w/e). It's the ridiculousness of 3+ layers that ruins the game.