[POLL] Chinese colonial

[momuuu]

Well I dont think the average collection of public opinions would turn the patch into anything decent.

Also, this particular change is more a matter of balancing guidelines. Im pretty sure they originally set up to not change the meta whereever possible, to just create an RE2.0 that simply features the same stuff but more balanced. You could argue a different philosofy is better but I can find myself in this one. Makes switching patches less awkward and just stays true to the original ideas.

Not to mention that I think the balance between ff and colonial civs is fine right now. Maybe china is a bit one dimensional, but their build still has quite a few neat variations.

I don't know if it's because you didn't get your cheerios for breakfast this morning but I will try to disregard the way you've been acting lately.

Isnt this a very decent post?

[britishmusketeer]

Im pretty sure china's colonial isn't that shitty. Its not the greatest either though. Its not as shitty as spain's colonial.

Spain's colonial is not shitty at all. If you compare them to french which has one of the stronger age 2's in the game: Difference between 500f and 400w in vill seconds is significant but the shipment bonus means that you can squeeze in 4 vill over your opponent or go atp or something. I would say that if it wasn't for the semi-ff meta, spain would go colonial alot.

[_DB_]

chinese are top civilization already
they dont need anything, and atleast not a buff..

[deleted_user]

I'm going to go out on a limb and play devil's advocate.

The patch shouldn't Be heavily influenced by the community majority. Im going to bet most here don't understand just how difficult it is to actually achieve balance. It's not so simple as "buff this, nerf this." And even if it were, quite frankly, I'm not sure the community would make great changes.

[[Armag] diarouga]

China is a ff civ and we're not going to buff their colonial play to make it viable lol.

[zoom]

I definitely would but it's clearly not within the current scope of the EP. I would make it more attractive but generally less attractive than the FF.

[tedere12]

Im pretty sure china's colonial isn't that shitty. Its not the greatest either though. Its not as shitty as spain's colonial.

spains colonial is good and definitely better than china

[Mimsy for President]

As a matter of fact, this poll is linked with the previous one (regarding the Chinese fortress). As n0eL pointed out, balance is not unilateral : it's not only nerf or only buff it's nerf and/or buff.

[tedere12]

maybe add a card that buffs disciples by 10%hp OR ships 7 disciples, allows them to be trained in tc, allows to make infinite disciples from tc and doesn't allow you to make them from explorer if you have 10 of them or more.
Otherwise make the 3 pike 2 keshik batch, 2 ckn 3 keshik.
Another solution i have thought about and it is a bit complexed, is to ship a card in age one that adds an export trickle and also gives you the ability to exchange gold with export.
Ok last one i just thought is do allow you to make musks from the russian bh lol i think that a bad change though

If you can make infinite disciples, you should make them cost 1 pop i think.
Also, giving the keshik +1 attack, +15 HP on base stats while make them more expensive with having 3.5x vs cav at start instead of 3.0x is going to somehow fix china's colonial..

Yes making them cost 1 pop as well. Then my idea about the consulate seems pretty good, at least will give them the option to semi or sth with musk or coss

[DemonDog]

Chinese age 2 could be good in the right hands.

[fei123456]

China is a ff civ and we're not going to buff their colonial play to make it viable lol.

german is a semiff civ so we should delete their rax units to make their colo inavailable lol.
japan is a boom civ so we should ban all 300w players lol.
french is..... a civ that can do everything? so we must ban french lol.

[[Armag] diarouga]

China is a ff civ and we're not going to buff their colonial play to make it viable lol.

german is a semiff civ so we should delete their rax units to make their colo inavailable lol.
japan is a boom civ so we should ban all 300w players lol.
french is..... a civ that can do everything? so we must ban french lol.

Ger is a semi ff civ and their colo play isn't nearly as good as their semi ff.
If you want to do the 300w build you're free to do it, but it sux lol. Chinese colonial is better than any jap rush lol, that's like you asked «buff rush with japan».
France is a civ that can do many things yeah, that's their civ advantage but they can't boom as well as jap, ff as well as china or rush like azzy.
It's just a matter of design, chinese ff is extremly good but that's the only strat you can do so your opponent can counter it.
Btw, colonial is already viable as an anti meta play, that's what mongo10 often does to surprise and it works.

[forgrin]

ps : Japan has an awesome cav semi. Let me know if you want me to teach you.

Pls. I tried for like 4 days straight trying to get a Japan cav semi to work, but I kept aging up at 10 mins with 5 Nagi and nothing else...

[forgrin]

China colonial isn't that bad tbh, it's basically an xbow pike rush civ with some weird but decent options (flamethrower mass etc). The main problem is that it's so hard to get a decent mass of xbow due to the banner armies mechanic- you have to essentially waste a bunch of resources on way more pikes (or keshiks, I guess?) than you'd want. Also, no huss, which is a pain.

If you just buff keshik a bit that could be somewhat viable.

[Mimsy for President]

ps : Japan has an awesome cav semi. Let me know if you want me to teach you.

Pls. I tried for like 4 days straight trying to get a Japan cav semi to work, but I kept aging up at 10 mins with 5 Nagi and nothing else...

If you macro properly, you are in fortress at 8min40. 9min10 is the worst time you can reach.

[forgrin]

ps : Japan has an awesome cav semi. Let me know if you want me to teach you.

Pls. I tried for like 4 days straight trying to get a Japan cav semi to work, but I kept aging up at 10 mins with 5 Nagi and nothing else...

If you macro properly, you are in fortress at 8min40.

what's your build? I was going Torii for the extra shipments and aging to 3 with shrine for export.

[Mimsy for President]

Show hidden quotes

ps : Japan has an awesome cav semi. Let me know if you want me to teach you.

Pls. I tried for like 4 days straight trying to get a Japan cav semi to work, but I kept aging up at 10 mins with 5 Nagi and nothing else...

If you macro properly, you are in fortress at 8min40.

what's your build? I was going Torii for the extra shipments and aging to 3 with shrine for export.

Always Toshogu Shrine. Heavenly Kami then 600w 600c 600w. Capture as many treasures as you can so you have a shipment ready in fortress (or else there's no point in going age3).

[forgrin]

Cool, thanks i'll try that out.

[fei123456]

japan cav semi should age up with buddha, as it send a cav and you can use spy ability to find your opponent's vill

[lemmings121]

japan cav semi should age up with buddha, as it send a cav and you can use spy ability to find your opponent's vill

new meta confirmed. I'm never using toshogu shrine again.

[sudmakmak]

Buff Anti Cavalry and Coyote Runner. Buff Keshik.