Longbow discussion

User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

You have never met me
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

Thebritish we should really try stuff together online, like 50 grens vs 50 skirms (old one) and lbs vs musks, lbs vs skirms etc
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

Kaiserklein wrote:Thebritish we should really try stuff together online, like 50 grens vs 50 skirms (old one) and lbs vs musks, lbs vs skirms etc

imperial skirms vs imperial grenadiers or base stats? (grenadier vs dutch skirm)
Also, skirms are only used to counter HI which means its normal for them to suck vs non HI units unlike lbows who are skirm type unit, but dont have the multiplier to fight HI cost effective...
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

thebritish wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Thebritish we should really try stuff together online, like 50 grens vs 50 skirms (old one) and lbs vs musks, lbs vs skirms etc

imperial skirms vs imperial grenadiers or base stats? (grenadier vs dutch skirm)
Also, skirms are only used to counter HI which means its normal for them to suck vs non HI units unlike lbows who are skirm type unit, but dont have the multiplier to fight HI cost effective...

Base stats obviously, why do you always want to compare imp stats ? These stats are probs reached less than 1% of our games... You don't remember ? You said that grens >>>> skirms some time ago and you never agreed to try it.
I don't see the point of your second sentence btw
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Garja »

somppukunkku wrote:
Garja wrote:lbows are fine and brits never had a problem vs HI. /thread

And still every brit mirror is a musk spamming competition?

LB is relatively shit unit cause their animation is so long+they miss shots. They do well vs goons but are just too shit vs HI to be a counter unit.
I'd give +5hp or +1 attack.

The fact that most mirror are musk spam has very little to do with lbow being bad and a lot with the fact that musks are OP in this game. Jap mirror are ashi wars as wel.. Fre mirrors are musk spam, etc.
Brit mirror meta used to be also cav start into lbows or lbows into lbows+huss because lbows are OP in mass and they barely get beaten by mass cav.
+1 attack to lbows is crazy. Old fp gave them -1 attack and 1.5 vs HI and also less range bonus with the guard up card.
That is not necessary in my opinion, because lbows still beat HI (especially with anything tanking damage for them) and they shatter everything else. It's the way the unit is supposed to be and changing it is the perfect exaple of limiting civ uniqness.
Image Image Image
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

Kaiserklein wrote:
thebritish wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Thebritish we should really try stuff together online, like 50 grens vs 50 skirms (old one) and lbs vs musks, lbs vs skirms etc

imperial skirms vs imperial grenadiers or base stats? (grenadier vs dutch skirm)
Also, skirms are only used to counter HI which means its normal for them to suck vs non HI units unlike lbows who are skirm type unit, but dont have the multiplier to fight HI cost effective...

Base stats obviously, why do you always want to compare imp stats ? These stats are probs reached less than 1% of our games... You don't remember ? You said that grens >>>> skirms some time ago and you never agreed to try it.
I don't see the point of your second sentence btw

Yumi and skirms have the same RoF, right?
-Now lets compare them....
Yumi have 52 attack multiplied by 1.5 vs HI, they get 78 attack.
Skirms have 34 attack, multiplied by 3.0 vs HI, they get 102 attack.
-It is clearly that skirms win this beat very convincingly.

But, if Yumi fight skirms, they will rape them because skirms lose their big 3.0 multiplier.
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by momuuu »

Dont 50 amoved grens rape 50 amoved skirms?

Also, musk meta is because huss are OP actually garja. At least Im pretty sure that a huge factor aswell.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by zoom »

thebritish wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Base stats obviously, why do you always want to compare imp stats ? These stats are probs reached less than 1% of our games... You don't remember ? You said that grens >>>> skirms some time ago and you never agreed to try it.
I don't see the point of your second sentence btw

Yumi and skirms have the same RoF, right?
-Now lets compare them....
Yumi have 52 attack multiplied by 1.5 vs HI, they get 78 attack.
Skirms have 34 attack, multiplied by 3.0 vs HI, they get 102 attack.
-It is clearly that skirms win this beat very convincingly.

But, if Yumi fight skirms, they will rape them because skirms lose their big 3.0 multiplier.

Yumi base damage is 19.
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

?
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

thebritish wrote:Yumi and skirms have the same RoF, right?
-Now lets compare them....
Yumi have 52 attack multiplied by 1.5 vs HI, they get 78 attack.
Skirms have 34 attack, multiplied by 3.0 vs HI, they get 102 attack.
-It is clearly that skirms win this beat very convincingly.

But, if Yumi fight skirms, they will rape them because skirms lose their big 3.0 multiplier.


Just stop using imperial stats or idk whatever those stats are, it's dumb, use normal stats = base stats : yumis 19 attack, skirms 15 attack... And skirms don't have that upgrade vs HI, so it's *2. So yumis get 27 attack vs HI, skirms get 30. Skirms also have 20 more hp, but they're a bit more expansive. I guess skirms are a bit better than yumis vs HI overall (mainly because they can hit and run better). And yumis are better than skirms against everything else.
So what ? I already know that, and so do most people here I think. What's your point then ? And why the fuck are you even talking about yumis lol ?

Jerom wrote:Dont 50 amoved grens rape 50 amoved skirms?

Yeah they do, but because of the shit animation grens have and of the long range of skirms, you can kite more or less endlessly while barely getting hit by grenadiers. That's why I want to try it with thebritish, he doesn't seem to understand that.
Btw I know we should use something like a 2 grens for 3 skirms ratio, to make the test fair cost-wise, but thebritish was talking about 50 grens vs 50 skirms so...
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by momuuu »

Jerom wrote:Dont 50 amoved grens rape 50 amoved skirms?

Yeah they do, but because of the shit animation grens have and of the long range of skirms, you can kite more or less endlessly while barely getting hit by grenadiers. That's why I want to try it with thebritish, he doesn't seem to understand that.
Btw I know we should use something like a 2 grens for 3 skirms ratio, to make the test fair cost-wise, but thebritish was talking about 50 grens vs 50 skirms so...[/quote]
Yeah thats the gren issue. Other than that they might actually be decent units (in particular after that arsenal upgrade has been researched).
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by zoom »

thebritish wrote:?

19 times 2 is 38.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

Jerom wrote:Yeah thats the gren issue. Other than that they might actually be decent units (in particular after that arsenal upgrade has been researched).


Yeah without the animation they would be much better, but they would still kinda suck because of that stupid HI tag. Wtf, they're supposed to be artillery, which means they should counter infantry. Atm they lose to cav (probs the worst unit ever to use against cav, except culverins), to any unit with a multiplier against HI (skirms, falcs), to any unit with a longer range and able to kite (xbows). They just beat HI (and not even by far because they suck at melee) and lbs because lbs can't kite and don't have a good multiplier vs grens.

Wow in fact thebritish is right, lbs are so bad that they even lose to grenadiers. #Buff #Long #Bow #Men
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

zoom wrote:
thebritish wrote:?

19 times 2 is 38.

Are you even playing aoe3?
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
User avatar
Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar 15, 2015
ESO: lemmings121

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by lemmings121 »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Jerom wrote:Yeah thats the gren issue. Other than that they might actually be decent units (in particular after that arsenal upgrade has been researched).


Yeah without the animation they would be much better, but they would still kinda suck because of that stupid HI tag. Wtf, they're supposed to be artillery, which means they should counter infantry. Atm they lose to cav (probs the worst unit ever to use against cav, except culverins), to any unit with a multiplier against HI (skirms, falcs), to any unit with a longer range and able to kite (xbows). They just beat HI (and not even by far because they suck at melee) and lbs because lbs can't kite and don't have a good multiplier vs grens.

Wow in fact thebritish is right, lbs are so bad that they even lose to grenadiers. #Buff #Long #Bow #Men


holy shit, you are right... granadeirs lose to almost every single unit in game.... except lbs!
#buff_LB
Image
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by momuuu »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Jerom wrote:Yeah thats the gren issue. Other than that they might actually be decent units (in particular after that arsenal upgrade has been researched).


Yeah without the animation they would be much better, but they would still kinda suck because of that stupid HI tag. Wtf, they're supposed to be artillery, which means they should counter infantry. Atm they lose to cav (probs the worst unit ever to use against cav, except culverins), to any unit with a multiplier against HI (skirms, falcs), to any unit with a longer range and able to kite (xbows). They just beat HI (and not even by far because they suck at melee) and lbs because lbs can't kite and don't have a good multiplier vs grens.

Wow in fact thebritish is right, lbs are so bad that they even lose to grenadiers. #Buff #Long #Bow #Men

Actually I think grens do surprisingly well against cav once your ball gets big enough. They're not half bad stat wise apart from the fact that their animation is terrible, but once you let them stand and fight (dont even attackmove, kinda like with longbow) they appear to do loads of damage to just about anything.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

Jerom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Jerom wrote:Yeah thats the gren issue. Other than that they might actually be decent units (in particular after that arsenal upgrade has been researched).


Yeah without the animation they would be much better, but they would still kinda suck because of that stupid HI tag. Wtf, they're supposed to be artillery, which means they should counter infantry. Atm they lose to cav (probs the worst unit ever to use against cav, except culverins), to any unit with a multiplier against HI (skirms, falcs), to any unit with a longer range and able to kite (xbows). They just beat HI (and not even by far because they suck at melee) and lbs because lbs can't kite and don't have a good multiplier vs grens.

Wow in fact thebritish is right, lbs are so bad that they even lose to grenadiers. #Buff #Long #Bow #Men

Actually I think grens do surprisingly well against cav once your ball gets big enough. They're not half bad stat wise apart from the fact that their animation is terrible, but once you let them stand and fight (dont even attackmove, kinda like with longbow) they appear to do loads of damage to just about anything.

They have a 0.5 multiplier vs cav tho, and the most terrible hand attack you've ever seen (8 attack for a 180 ress unit...). In fact the multiplier could be fine (on tad), because other ranged inf have *0.75 and then suffer like 20% or 30% range resist, which means not much better than *0.5 multiplier in the end. But other ranged inf units have a *1.5 multiplier vs goons, while grens still have *0.5. And another important thing : the area damage is almost negated against cav because cav units aren't close to each other. So grens have 16 * 0.5 = 8 vs cav, with not much area effect, while for example a skirm has 15 * 0.75 * 0.7 (if 30% rr) = 7.875. So not much more for the gren... And he's more or less 1.5 times more expansive, and he can't kite (very huge issue vs cav obviously, especially with this shit hand attack).
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by yemshi »

A little off-topic but talking about range, don't you have the feeling that units can shoot further away if their targeted aim is moving away? I've always had that feeling, especially in Age I creeping...
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by zoom »

thebritish wrote:
zoom wrote:
thebritish wrote:?

19 times 2 is 38.

Are you even playing aoe3?

Not one game.

38<52.
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by tedere12 »

actually cassadors>longbows and since 1 skir>1 cassador skirms win longbows! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3c_ROYrEGw
No Flag sudmakmak
Skirmisher
Posts: 180
Joined: Jan 15, 2016

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by sudmakmak »

nerf hard japan and yumi = balance
(Use Logic)
User avatar
No Flag rio222
Musketeer
Posts: 87
Joined: Mar 3, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by rio222 »

The old outcry to nerf Japs... would you give it a break!! The all concept of Japs is to have the best inf units in game and a dangerously slow start in early (age 1 - first half of colonial). How can you bitch about Japs inf as being powerful, when this is the entire point of the civ's existence?!
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

yemshi wrote:A little off-topic but talking about range, don't you have the feeling that units can shoot further away if their targeted aim is moving away? I've always had that feeling, especially in Age I creeping...

Whenever a unit is aiming at a target, and this target goes out of range, but still in LOS of that unit, the unit will still shoot at the target, whatever the range is. It's basically a micro trick, just right click on your targets when you know they are going to be out of range for your next volley, so that your units will still shoot. Happens a lot with falcs
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

tedere12 wrote:actually cassadors>longbows and since 1 skir>1 cassador skirms win longbows! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3c_ROYrEGw

Caçadores are vet and lbs aren't, caçadores are more expansive than lbs, and lbs need to be microed to be efficient
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787
Joined: Jul 18, 2015

Re: Longbow discussion

Post by thebritish »

Kaiserklein wrote:
tedere12 wrote:actually cassadors>longbows and since 1 skir>1 cassador skirms win longbows! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3c_ROYrEGw

Caçadores are vet and lbs aren't, caçadores are more expansive than lbs, and lbs need to be microed to be efficient

And every signle person on the forum told me that longbows should never me microed and left to shoot to be able to use their advantage of better RoF
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV