Outposts vs fishing ships

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Poland pecelot
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Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by pecelot »

To somewhat balance the water play from the land perspective I would suggest changing the outpost damage against fishing ships from rifle to cannon shots, just like on Nilla, to harrass more free fishing from the shores. Right now towers are pretty ineffective against them — there's always a possibility to train artillery, but it's accessible only from Age III.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by gibson »

Yes I think they do like 3 damage or so vs them.... But whenever I'm fishing it annoy me bc it shoots the flag off the boat
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Italy Garja
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

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Post by Garja »

Ye this was also my thought at some point. We can consider this if we decide to balance water.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Atomiswave »

Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Method_man714 »

gibson wrote:Yes I think they do like 3 damage or so vs them.... But whenever I'm fishing it annoy me bc it shoots the flag off the boat

Lol
hazzarov: can u fk off callen
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by zoom »

Atomiswave wrote:Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.

That statement is amazing.

As far as OP is concerned, this may be tricky, as I suspect that the unit tags differentiating fishing boats from warships are the same ones that cause buildings to use their ranged attack against them.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Atomiswave »

zoom wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.

That statement is amazing.

As far as OP is concerned, this may be tricky, as I suspect that the unit tags differentiating fishing boats from warships are the same ones that cause buildings to use their ranged attack against them.


Indeed, statement is cool, but it's illogical. But then again, who knows, maybe devs really intended it. :D
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by iCourt »

Atomiswave wrote:Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.

It's super easy to fix, matter of fact it was fixed on ASFP 1.1, but I was told not to fix it due to the fact people have spent years learning it apparently.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by zoom »

iCourt wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.

It's super easy to fix, matter of fact it was fixed on ASFP 1.1, but I was told not to fix it due to the fact people have spent years learning it apparently.

Dare you kross the Mankl!?

No, you do not!

Not to mention the tons of hype and the knowledge of its silliness making you want to see it happen in a game.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by iCourt »

No, I have actually pushed back on some things he didn't want changed or didn't quite understand what the change was. For instance HD flags, and units throwing correct projectiles are both things he said no to, but I think improve the game. We both agree that the changes should have as little effect on balance as possible, or anything that could break player mechanics. If it does it has to go to the balance team.

Pretty much the only time I've effectively been able to use the garrison bug is vs noobs, and they just scream you've cheated...
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by forgrin »

iCourt wrote:No, I have actually pushed back on some things he didn't want changed or didn't quite understand what the change was. For instance HD flags, and units throwing correct projectiles are both things he said no to, but I think improve the game. We both agree that the changes should have as little effect on balance as possible, or anything that could break player mechanics. If it does it has to go to the balance team.

Pretty much the only time I've effectively been able to use the garrison bug is vs noobs, and they just scream you've cheated...


Wait... No HD flags or proper projectiles? Wut?
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Atomiswave »

iCourt wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:Good topic to mention small bug about fishing boats.

5. Buildings can garrison Fishing Boats if close enough to the water. This affects the following buildings: Town Center, Outpost, Blockhouse, Fort, Castle, Village, Asian Outpost, War Hut, Nobles' Hut, and Agra Fort. (Exploitable) -"I understand why this is silly, but knowing this makes me want to see it happen in a game. Would be tons of hype. Not much value in fixing it either"

I hope it will be fixed eventually.

It's super easy to fix, matter of fact it was fixed on ASFP 1.1, but I was told not to fix it due to the fact people have spent years learning it apparently.


LOL, I can't recall seeing it in a game.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by iCourt »

HD flags and projectiles are in the beta. There have been no complaints over them yet. :)
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

To be honest I haven't seen any updates projectiles in the beta myself. The flags do look cool though.

OT: I agree with this change. Changing the turret to cannons will allow you to control sections of the fishing economy, just like you control sections of the water vs warships.

The garrison mechanic is really cool. I use it all the time. Actually I'm pretty sure I used it in a smackdown once. It's very useful for transporting villagers, obviously, but many fail to see this potential. I guess a reason is because no one good plays water seriously right now since it's not viable.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by iCourt »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:To be honest I haven't seen any updates projectiles in the beta myself. The flags do look cool though.

OT: I agree with this change. Changing the turret to cannons will allow you to control sections of the fishing economy, just like you control sections of the water vs warships.

The garrison mechanic is really cool. I use it all the time. Actually I'm pretty sure I used it in a smackdown once. It's very useful for transporting villagers, obviously, but many fail to see this potential. I guess a reason is because no one good plays water seriously right now since it's not viable.

That's a different potential bug and is listed as such. The one Atomiswave brings up is where you can garrison fishing boats in a town center if its close enough to the water. Both are only listed as bugs because it doesn't seem this was the intent of Ensemble when designing the game as both are only doable using the garrison button on the UI, as opposed to simply right clicking.

I don't have a problem with fishing boats garrisoning since canoes can, and it's low HP and risky. Frankly I think it should just be possible to right click it if we do decide to keep it. Outposts garrisoning boats looks hell of stupid from a designer point of view but it effects mechanics learned so it's something the patch team and the community have to discuss. It's not just something I can fix cause I think it looks stupid.

As for the projectiles just play a native civilization. You'll see it when you kill your first hunt.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

iCourt wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:To be honest I haven't seen any updates projectiles in the beta myself. The flags do look cool though.

OT: I agree with this change. Changing the turret to cannons will allow you to control sections of the fishing economy, just like you control sections of the water vs warships.

The garrison mechanic is really cool. I use it all the time. Actually I'm pretty sure I used it in a smackdown once. It's very useful for transporting villagers, obviously, but many fail to see this potential. I guess a reason is because no one good plays water seriously right now since it's not viable.

That's a different potential bug and is listed as such. The one Atomiswave brings up is where you can garrison fishing boats in a town center if its close enough to the water. Both are only listed as bugs because it doesn't seem this was the intent of Ensemble when designing the game as both are only doable using the garrison button on the UI, as opposed to simply right clicking.

I don't have a problem with fishing boats garrisoning since canoes can, and it's low HP and risky. Frankly I think it should just be possible to right click it if we do decide to keep it. Outposts garrisoning boats looks hell of stupid from a designer point of view but it effects mechanics learned so it's something the patch team and the community have to discuss. It's not just something I can fix cause I think it looks stupid.

As for the projectiles just play a native civilization. You'll see it when you kill your first hunt.

I'm 99% sure you can't ungarrison boats out of a town center at least. I'm not sure about outposts and such though. I know this because I remember a team game in which I wasted 50 fishing boats this way :D
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by iCourt »

Depends how close it is to the water. You also need to set a rally point. If you put it in a teammates TC you wouldn't be able to successfully eject them however.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by Atomiswave »

iCourt wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:To be honest I haven't seen any updates projectiles in the beta myself. The flags do look cool though.

OT: I agree with this change. Changing the turret to cannons will allow you to control sections of the fishing economy, just like you control sections of the water vs warships.

The garrison mechanic is really cool. I use it all the time. Actually I'm pretty sure I used it in a smackdown once. It's very useful for transporting villagers, obviously, but many fail to see this potential. I guess a reason is because no one good plays water seriously right now since it's not viable.

That's a different potential bug and is listed as such. The one Atomiswave brings up is where you can garrison fishing boats in a town center if its close enough to the water. Both are only listed as bugs because it doesn't seem this was the intent of Ensemble when designing the game as both are only doable using the garrison button on the UI, as opposed to simply right clicking.

I don't have a problem with fishing boats garrisoning since canoes can, and it's low HP and risky. Frankly I think it should just be possible to right click it if we do decide to keep it. Outposts garrisoning boats looks hell of stupid from a designer point of view but it effects mechanics learned so it's something the patch team and the community have to discuss. It's not just something I can fix cause I think it looks stupid.

As for the projectiles just play a native civilization. You'll see it when you kill your first hunt.


I would disable both, since is was probably not intended.
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Re: Outposts vs fishing ships

Post by momuuu »

All I want is for water to not be viable. We need to nerf kynesie out of the tournament, he laggs too much imo.

But seriously I think this would be a good change. Although water probably needs an entire rework.

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