Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Yes i would like to see
20
56%
No i like the original one
16
44%
 
Total votes: 36

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Hungary Dsy
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Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

I made an arsenal rework. I think its better than original one! Vote how do you think about it! :)
Thanks for ICourt for verify changes doable in programming way!

Here it is:
Advanced arsenal card gives an arsenal wagon.
Infantry Breastplate - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Socket Bayonet - 200wood 200coin - 15% damage bonus overall for musket type units and grenadiers. (both ranged and melee)
Flint Lock - 200wood 200coin - 15% hp bonus for rifle type units (muskets dont benefit)
Paper Cartridge - 200wood 200 coin - 15% damage bonus for rifle type units (muskets dont benefit)
Cavalry Cuirass - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Professional Gunners - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Trunion - 200wood 200coin
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

That specific package? No. One including some of those changes and some others, yes. This is simply not within the current scope of the patch however, which I find unfortunate.
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United States of America iCourt
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iCourt »

The arsenal upgrades effect individual units, not unit types, therefor things like muskets can be avoided entirely when upgrading other ranged infantry. All of these changes are all very easy to implement.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iNcog »

zoom wrote:That specific package? No. One including some of those changes and some others, yes. This is simply not within the current scope of the patch however, which I find unfortunate.


Well first you need to release the current beta, right?!

PLEASE JUST DO IT

Then we can go on a forum crusade to get patch philosophy to be a little more open!
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

I am doing everything within my power to make that come to pass as soon as possible. Everything within my power is flaming Goodspeed and Jonatas, and I do believe I am getting close.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

iCourt wrote:The arsenal upgrades effect individual units, not unit types, therefor things like muskets can be avoided entirely when upgrading other ranged infantry. All of these changes are all very easy to implement.

That's interesting. I've always thought that Paper Cartridge, for instance, affects the tag "gunpowder infantry", although by your post I understand this is a pseudo-tag, which does not actually exist.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iNcog »

Is there a list of the different possible tags somewhere? The real ones.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Malaysia Aizamk
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Aizamk »

zoom wrote:
iCourt wrote:The arsenal upgrades effect individual units, not unit types, therefor things like muskets can be avoided entirely when upgrading other ranged infantry. All of these changes are all very easy to implement.

That's interesting. I've always thought that Paper Cartridge, for instance, affects the tag "gunpowder infantry", although by your post I understand this is a pseudo-tag, which does not actually exist.

Well I can confirm that you were always right; mac scrubs are just uninformed :lol:

Image
oranges.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

Well, I'm always right – except when I'm mistaken...
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

But you copy past L39 to L32 and you are basicly done, right? Or i think at least.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

As far as I'm concerned those particular changes aren't an option regardless.
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Malaysia Aizamk
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Aizamk »

If ashigaru don't benefit from those upgrades then what's the point of them being in the golden pavillion though.
oranges.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

Aizamk wrote:If ashigaru don't benefit from those upgrades then what's the point of them being in the golden pavillion though.

That's one of the reasons those changes aren't an option, yes.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

Everyone agree that ashis got too many upgrades in age 3 they become too strong lategame. Just remove those upgrades from pavillion. They still got cards/pavillion bonus/daimyos/consulate. I dont think they need even more...
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

If at all necessary, I would move Paper Cartridge Pavilion availability from Fortress to Industrial Age. I would not exclude Musketeers from improvements that are designed to affect Musketeers, unless there is absolute necessity to do so.

I do generally like the changes you suggest that aren't related to Musketeer-improvements, however.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

I know but if we talk about muskeeter related changes then we talk about skirm related changes too. If we want to see some improvements researched in some sup games we need lower the cost. But if we do so musks can get too many upgrades "cheaper". If the cost stay expensive, noone research them. So you basicly wont research musks neither skirm improvements.
Other problem that if musks have too many upgrades 20+10+15 then other heavy inf units move to the background with their 15% (like rods, dops, halbs).
It basicly means lower cost - musk heavy inf meta plus it appears already in age 2.
Stay expensive - noone resaerch upgrades.

Other hand if we are looking for combat effectivity in ranged mode thats only 10% hp different which isnt a huge deal at all. (and we use them basicly for that)

Just look the original improvements:
Bayonet: 400w 400c: i would never research it
Flint: 200w 250c: 10%, not a good deal
Paper: 350w 350c: expensive
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

i think Flint Lock and Paper Cartridge are mostly fine. If anything, I'd decrease their costs slightly. Quite a few Arsenal improvements are definitely not good enough, though.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iNcog »

You could make those technologies slightly cheaper, yeah.

I wouldn't mind seeing some more imaginative techs instead of just pure stat boosts. You could make them unique to a given civilization, thus preserving a civilization's unique traits.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Atomiswave »

Why don't go with subtle changes first, like reducing arsenal price to 200w, and giving AA card wagon. Dsy changes sound good, but there are just too many of them for minimalistic patch which ep advertises to be. Later down the road, if proved necessary prices of some tech could be reduced, some techs reworked, just like dsy suggested....
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

So heavy musk emotions in this game...
From 8 EU civs only 2 have only musk as heavy inf. All other have dops/rod/halbs. British and Otto. British has lot of cards, otto has card + they are jans.

But imagine if the infantry breastplate says that: hand infantry damage increased by 20%. People would argue "thats a lot". But Yeah its totally the same as bayonet do with musket.
But musks have this 20% and 15% damage plus 10% hp. And make it even cheaper... Thats 35% combat difference vs halbs/rods/dops. Imagine again with a halb with 270 health vs 180 health musks. Thats it if we rotate this (which is forgotten by everyone).
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iNcog »

I agree that using the Arsenal could be a cool way to buff civilizations.

Russians could get their musketeers from being OK to good, Rodeleros could go from being mediocre units before their upgrades to strong fighters in colonial.

The general idea is quite good, as for the actual changes, that needs a lot of discussion and comparison to civilization traits.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by zoom »

I think Light-Infantry Breastplate should give at least 15%. I just don't at all care for some of your suggested changes, mostly for reasons detailed ITT, and I think that the poll as such is poorly constructed.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by Dsy »

So main point in this specific changes is make arsenal aviable in supremacy games. Increase it effectivity to tad level (15% instead of 10%). And the third is give some space for alternative heavy inf units and make some variety into the game.
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by lordraphael »

Atomiswave wrote:Why don't go with subtle changes first, like reducing arsenal price to 200w, and giving AA card wagon. Dsy changes sound good, but there are just too many of them for minimalistic patch which ep advertises to be. Later down the road, if proved necessary prices of some tech could be reduced, some techs reworked, just like dsy suggested....

Thats already to much for the current policy. How do I know that ? Becasue I proposed this change months ago and it got shut down
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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United States of America iCourt
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Re: Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

Post by iCourt »

zoom wrote:
iCourt wrote:The arsenal upgrades effect individual units, not unit types, therefor things like muskets can be avoided entirely when upgrading other ranged infantry. All of these changes are all very easy to implement.

That's interesting. I've always thought that Paper Cartridge, for instance, affects the tag "gunpowder infantry", although by your post I understand this is a pseudo-tag, which does not actually exist.

Sorry I wasn't being clear. You would need to mod the upgrades to effect individual units. Some of the upgrades at the arsenal like paper cartridge use unit tags, where as bayonet uses actual units. This is why Pistoleros don't upgrade when you research bayonet.

When did I say gunpowder infantry wasn't a tag? I'm just saying it is possible to not include muskets using this method.

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