Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

[zoom]

You didn't; I merely misunderstood such is the case from your post.

[iNcog]

Why don't go with subtle changes first, like reducing arsenal price to 200w, and giving AA card wagon. Dsy changes sound good, but there are just too many of them for minimalistic patch which ep advertises to be. Later down the road, if proved necessary prices of some tech could be reduced, some techs reworked, just like dsy suggested....

Thats already to much for the current policy. How do I know that ? Becasue I proposed this change months ago and it got shut down

You proposed this change, I remembered it, it got leaked out in a public thread where I discussed this change, then a new thread is made specifically for this change.

#fullcircle

I still support this type of change and hope to see patch philosophy evolve so that these changes are considered. Obviously not for this iteration, but for the next one.

I hope that subsequent patch releases have a theme to them.

Patch 1.0 was a first start, with balance for outlying civilizations.

Pat 2.0 is going to be the continuation of the first patch, with an emphasis on exploring team balance and adjusting the shortcomings of the first patch (which was good anyway).

I hope that after that, we get stuff like Patch 2.1, which has an emphasis on reworking ONE problematic civilization, then Patch 2.2, which is another civilization.

Patch 2.0.x are technical or map updates.

Basically, I hope that the patch team starts going for several iterations of smaller patches, released more quickly with a focus on specific problems. This is better than doing ONE big release every few months. It keeps people much more engaged and allows for the Patch to get the momentum it needs to get more people to switch over.

I'll probably make a big ass post about it, like I did for Voobly. I'll get flamed for it and stuff, but it'll hopefully change the way things are done in a positive way. I hope ESOC patch team is reading this right now.

[Dsy]

Multitasking is far better than single-tasking. Move with the ages guys!

[Garja]

Actually at some point the game balancing should just end and we should just focus on playing the game.
The more you prolong the "beta" the more people will wait for other changes instead of actually trying new ways to play.

About the AA change, it's on the same level of improving other "advanced building" cards, maybe with a bit more priority because it's more viable and interesting.
This means it will only find room for fixing later, when more important stuff has been addressed. It is also possible that it won't be changed at all.

[Atomiswave]

Why don't go with subtle changes first, like reducing arsenal price to 200w, and giving AA card wagon. Dsy changes sound good, but there are just too many of them for minimalistic patch which ep advertises to be. Later down the road, if proved necessary prices of some tech could be reduced, some techs reworked, just like dsy suggested....

Thats already to much for the current policy. How do I know that ? Becasue I proposed this change months ago and it got shut down

I didn't know it was your idea in the first place. Anyway, if they blatantly turned down suggestion of second if not the best player on eso who knows game very well, these discussions are totally pointless.

[Atomiswave]

@Garja

notification

The goal is to make AA more viable. AA wagon and/or building price reduction wouldn't change meta at all. It would actually give some incentive to use arsenal in some situations, without it being draconically expensive with small benefit.

So give me Arsenal for 225 or 200w and provide wagon with AA, so i can drive it around the map and run down Garja with it.

[zoom]

Yes, Rapha was definitely first with that idea.

[Dsy]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2624&p=64318#p64318

Actually it was the first time when idea came out to be clear...
Until this post a lot of thread opened for AA rework and it became famous.

[iNcog]

Not a fan of idea ego², but Rapha did post that on internal EP forums MONTHS ago, as a possible fix for Russia. Not sure what the date, nor does it matter, but I would like to give credit to Rapha for thinking of it.

Many ideas come at the same time though, or stem from the same logic, so it's no surprise that idea authors conflict sometimes. Reminds me of Neuron who thought he was a genius for thinking of having an official twitch channel... for a community site. Not that anyone here is like that, Kappa

[Dsy]

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3505&p=75434#p75434

I posted my suggestion october 8 lot of people saw it.
And the link shows people start discuss it in november in other thread where Lord says: "I really like this idea"

Its not egopost. But when i hear my ideas comes from others i just get mad. Its very annoying you know. I dont ask for my ideas anything just dont steal them!

[Dsy]

But it will be the same with ceperate pillar and straight wall cost. Everyone know there is a time when this change will be necessary for competitive play (if aoe3 survive that time). But we are waiting until people forget idea comes from me.
And the problem isnt that people forget my name. The problem you give credits others for my ideas!
Same will be for remove the auto stance changes from cannon type units. Who the hell could say "its a bad idea making the game more enjoyable and less buggy"? Noone. Thats why its easy to steal... You need just say other time: "Remove auto stance change from cannons prevent the most annoying cannon bug" and you have a great idea.

[zoom]

http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2624&p=64318#p64318

Actually it was the first time when idea came out to be clear...
Until this post a lot of thread opened for AA rework and it became famous.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? I'm sure you came up with it all by yourself.

[zoom]

But it will be the same with ceperate pillar and straight wall cost. Everyone know there is a time when this change will be necessary for competitive play (if aoe3 survive that time). But we are waiting until people forget idea comes from me.
And the problem isnt that people forget my name. The problem you give credits others for my ideas!
Same will be for remove the auto stance changes from cannon type units. Who the hell could say "its a bad idea making the game more enjoyable and less buggy"? Noone. Thats why its easy to steal... You need just say other time: "Remove auto stance change from cannons prevent the most annoying cannon bug" and you have a great idea.

Separating pillar and segment cost punishes game knowledge and APM. Why would we do that?

[Dsy]

Cause wall costs are funny for a competitive play.
My friend had some years of break in this game. He watched some games though. I said ESOC patch is good there are some really cool features. His first question was until he saw some kynesie plays. Are walls more expensive now? Answer: No they arent.
Maybe if he can see there is possibility to avoid that madness playstyle which is required for those game he says "thats cool". But if your opponent decide to go for this playstyle you follow up do the same or lose. Its not microbased at all maybe we can agree in that (5 pikes for 8 min). Most sup people likes this game for micro. Thats why moba famous watching exciting risky fights. If you want keep competitive its the only way to keep it alive...

[zoom]

I don't see how that relates to differentiating between pillars and segment cost. It seems to just relate to increasing wall cost in general.

[Atomiswave]

Pls add Dsy to esoc patch team

[lordraphael]

http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3505&p=75434#p75434

I posted my suggestion october 8 lot of people saw it.
And the link shows people start discuss it in november in other thread where Lord says: "I really like this idea"

Its not egopost. But when i hear my ideas comes from others i just get mad. Its very annoying you know. I dont ask for my ideas anything just dont steal them!

no one said that you werent the initiator of this idea ( as a matter of fact you probably werent tbh, because im quite sure that this idea has come up various times in someones mind...) I was merely saying that your idea wont make it into the patch because ive already proposed it in internal EP forums , the place where such things are decided in the end and it wasnt succesful.
Besides apart from the arsenal wagon your ideas arent very well thought which is probably why your poll is going so bad.

[Dsy]

You cant increase the wall cost general without ceperate pillar and segment cost. Or at least its not beginner friendly if you do it.
Just like 10w for both. Yes its game knowledge to know how to delete pillars effectively, but its necessary to do then or you lose a lot of wood. And if you want make a game more popular you just cant say the new player how add hotkeys for select all pillars to delete them fast cause those contest of the game basicly bad designed and you win a lot of wood with it. Their face is until hear it is like "wtf". And i think we dont want disappoint the newcoming players with these things. We have tools to fix it! So make it beginner frinedly, noone lose with it anything.

[iNcog]

Well the poll is just poorly made, it should have been just about "do you want to see an arsenal rework" instead of "do you want to see this specific arsenal rework".

[lordraphael]

Well the poll is just poorly made, it should have been just about "do you want to see an arsenal rework" instead of "do you want to see this specific arsenal rework".

exactly

[zoom]

You cant increase the wall cost general without ceperate pillar and segment cost. Or at least its not beginner friendly if you do it.
Just like 10w for both. Yes its game knowledge to know how to delete pillars effectively, but its necessary to do then or you lose a lot of wood. And if you want make a game more popular you just cant say the new player how add hotkeys for select all pillars to delete them fast cause those contest of the game basicly bad designed and you win a lot of wood with it. Their face is until hear it is like "wtf". And i think we dont want disappoint the newcoming players with these things. We have tools to fix it! So make it beginner frinedly, noone lose with it anything.

Fix what? The possibility to improve by learning, training and performance?

[Dsy]

http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3505&p=75434#p75434

I posted my suggestion october 8 lot of people saw it.
And the link shows people start discuss it in november in other thread where Lord says: "I really like this idea"

Its not egopost. But when i hear my ideas comes from others i just get mad. Its very annoying you know. I dont ask for my ideas anything just dont steal them!

no one said that you werent the initiator of this idea ( as a matter of fact you probably werent tbh, because im quite sure that this idea has come up various times in someones mind...) I was merely saying that your idea wont make it into the patch because ive already proposed it in internal EP forums , the place where such things are decided in the end and it wasnt succesful.
Besides apart from the arsenal wagon your ideas arent very well thought which is probably why your poll is going so bad.

They said the idea comes from others its hard to deny. But if you still think its not, just show me a log where others mention it older time than my first post! Im in the game guys but you will lose!
Anyway i wanted to say you are cool to bring the idea to the ESOC team. I havent said you wanted to steal my idea. It wasnt you...

[iNcog]

It's just a bit strange to talk about ideas being stolen. We aren't Neuron, remember?

Anyway, good thread.

[Dsy]

You cant increase the wall cost general without ceperate pillar and segment cost. Or at least its not beginner friendly if you do it.
Just like 10w for both. Yes its game knowledge to know how to delete pillars effectively, but its necessary to do then or you lose a lot of wood. And if you want make a game more popular you just cant say the new player how add hotkeys for select all pillars to delete them fast cause those contest of the game basicly bad designed and you win a lot of wood with it. Their face is until hear it is like "wtf". And i think we dont want disappoint the newcoming players with these things. We have tools to fix it! So make it beginner frinedly, noone lose with it anything.

Fix what? The possibility to improve by learning, training and performance?

But this learning possibility actually from game designers fault. You highlight basicly a bug when you want make it common by increase price of pillars. And if you want invite newcoming players they wont care that its good for improve your skills. They just wont like it. "why the hell do i need to delete my walls". They want that once they deploy a wall and build it up with a vill then its ok and nice; its already up.

[Dsy]

Plus ingame for build a 50w wall costs 105w in old way (yout get 55w back until deployed). With ceperated prices you can build 50w wall from 55wood (you get 5w back). Its again matter if you wanna make longer walls.