Would you like to see this Arsenal rework in ESOC Patch?

[Atomiswave]

@Garja

notification

Yeah but it's still a small issue, and probably easy fix.

[Garja]

I don't see any issue with that honestly, like literally none.

[Papist]

@zoom

notification

No mr.zoom, my only argument is that you shouldn't need to micro in order to build wall without resource loss. Anyway, enough about the issue, we are deep into off topic already.

Since when does pressing a hotkey count as micro?

[zoom]

Show hidden quotes

It doesn't take much practice, if at all, to use the walling bug; it just requires time. Regardless of how much you practice, I may as well add: e.g. diarouga explaining that it takes 10 sec of time instead of 3 sec.

Wall tinghy is a unneeded waste of time. There are so many other operations in game where skill and knowledge are involved, than building a simple wall without losing some wood in process.

Right, so how is that an argument against there being one more operation?

No offense, but I think it's stupid. I can't think of one single RTS, where you need to know secret of Holy Grail in order to evade game stealing wood from you for building a simple wall.

If you want expensier walls, by all means make them with correct price tag so everyone knows what they are paying for. Or even better, briefly explain this "bug" in wall description so everyone knows they are paying more if walls are not built "properly".

This is more about information than anything else, information which should be provided to player as is, no shenanigans involved. If it is 5w, it's 5w period, no small letters in a contract.

Why would I take offense to that? I also think it's stupid. Great job completely ignoring my post though. Again:

How is that an argument against there being one more operation?

[[Armag] diarouga]

@zoom

notification

No mr.zoom, my only argument is that you shouldn't need to micro in order to build wall without resource loss. Anyway, enough about the issue, we are deep into off topic already.

Since when does pressing a hotkey count as micro?

Because your wall needs to have the right size, otherwise you wasted your wood for a wall which doesn t stop your opponent lol.

[deleted_user]

I think wall should stay same

[IP Man]

I made an arsenal rework. I think its better than original one! Vote how do you think about it!
Thanks for ICourt for verify changes doable in programming way!

Here it is:
Advanced arsenal card gives an arsenal wagon.
Infantry Breastplate - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Socket Bayonet - 200wood 200coin - 15% damage bonus overall for musket type units and grenadiers. (both ranged and melee)
Flint Lock - 200wood 200coin - 15% hp bonus for rifle type units (muskets dont benefit)
Paper Cartridge - 200wood 200 coin - 15% damage bonus for rifle type units (muskets dont benefit)
Cavalry Cuirass - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Professional Gunners - 15% hp bonus instead of 10%.
Trunion - 200wood 200coin

I have been watching this forum, but as this topic got popular, i have decided to create account and give my 2 cents:

-As far i can see you only want to make the skirms to be stronger than before and you also wants to make musks weaker than before (i assume from this your favorite civs are French/German).
-Why do you want to nerf the musk 15% damage and 10% HP upgrade into 15% damage only and give 15% HP and 15% attack for skirms (thats 2 more upgrades to make skirms better).
About the Socket Bayonet affecting grenadiers. Currently you cant even get close enough with them to shoot skirms and you want to give them melee attack. Why?
-The are better off fighting in ranged mode because they have area damage and they have 50% RR. if they fight in melee they will lose their 50% RR and that area damage attack will become 1/3 in melee without the area damage.
The only good thing from your suggestions about the arsenal are the Infantry breastplate upgrade (buffed from 10% to 15% HP, tho that doesnt seem enough because skirms get 2 new cards. That card need to affect the attack and the HP of the units if you are planning on buffing skirms even more and nerfing musks.
The best suggestion from you is the card giving Arsenal Wagon when sent.

[momuuu]

I think the techs are mostly pretty expensive to ever be worth it, even if you are going to get three or four techs. Only CIR is occasionally really good.

[Atomiswave]

I think the techs are mostly pretty expensive to ever be worth it, even if you are going to get three or four techs. Only CIR is occasionally really good.

Maybe you are right, even with AA wagon, 200w arsenal and cheaper techs, prices will still be too high for current meta. Resources, especially wood are so precious that you can't afford to invest in arsenal techs which you can often compensate with card upgrades. But, on the other hand, with proposed changes at least aresenal will become somewhat viable in certain situations.

[cramper]

An arsenal wagon along with a breastplace boost seems well enough for a start. I dont think lowering the resource costs for the the different arsenel upgrades is gonna change advanced arsenal card from being a late game card, aswell boosting the stats of upgrades, if its not a serious increase of stats for the ugprades, you will end up sending it in a late game anyways where your likely pretty juiced up with mass or eco to afford it, or make it worth the boost. And by then its already worth it with the unchanged adv arsenal. More importantly other shipments most likely calls your attention in early fortress or colonial games at 12-14 min marker before the real lategame starts. I think adv arsenal or the normal arsenal for that matter isn't so horrible after all.

[Garja]

Ye arsenal is not bad at all. The purpose of advanced arsenal is solely the one of the card description. No need to tweak it to the point where it becomes a real alternative to other cards.

[Atomiswave]

Ye arsenal is not bad at all. The purpose of advanced arsenal is solely the one of the card description. No need to tweak it to the point where it becomes a real alternative to other cards.

AA wagon won't make drastic changes, except give AA card more incentive to be sent. Even with more changes, arsenal and AA won't become viable alternative to imp cards.

[momuuu]

AA is just too expensive compared to many cards that you can send (like brit musk cards or Dutch inf cards) I think. You can tweak it I guess, its kinda lame for an entire building to not be viable. But hey, livestock pen is also shit.

[Kaiserklein]

For sure you wouldn't ship AA early on anyway, but you could maybe consider having it in deck. Right now I feel like it doesn't deserve a slot in your deck for most civs

[Atomiswave]

AA is just too expensive compared to many cards that you can send (like brit musk cards or Dutch inf cards) I think. You can tweak it I guess, its kinda lame for an entire building to not be viable. But hey, livestock pen is also shit.

In current meta, pen is niche feature in truest sense of the word. You build it only when you manage to collect 8 or 10 herdables, which happens very rarely. Even then, 200w for pen is too much. If any changes are to be made to pens in future, their wood price should be decreased.

[Atomiswave]

For sure you wouldn't ship AA early on anyway, but you could maybe consider having it in deck. Right now I feel like it doesn't deserve a slot in your deck for most civs

Yeah, totally useless card. You could eventually put it in ports deck, cause they have so much free space in age 2, but again you are probably not gonna send it, which again leads me to great AA wagon idea, as a bare minimum change for AA.

[momuuu]

AA is just too expensive compared to many cards that you can send (like brit musk cards or Dutch inf cards) I think. You can tweak it I guess, its kinda lame for an entire building to not be viable. But hey, livestock pen is also shit.

In current meta, pen is niche feature in truest sense of the word. You build it only when you manage to collect 8 or 10 herdables, which happens very rarely. Even then, 250w for pen is too much. If any changes are to be made to pens in future, their wood price should be decreased.

To use the word meta for that is wrong. A pen just isn't good and livestock just isn't good, in every meta that can exist in sup.

[iCourt]

Lots of reasons pens suck. Cost of wood, cost of sheep, time it takes to fatten etc.

[Atomiswave]

AA is just too expensive compared to many cards that you can send (like brit musk cards or Dutch inf cards) I think. You can tweak it I guess, its kinda lame for an entire building to not be viable. But hey, livestock pen is also shit.

In current meta, pen is niche feature in truest sense of the word. You build it only when you manage to collect 8 or 10 herdables, which happens very rarely. Even then, 250w for pen is too much. If any changes are to be made to pens in future, their wood price should be decreased.

To use the word meta for that is wrong. A pen just isn't good and livestock just isn't good, in every meta that can exist in sup.

Right...... now i am wondering what devs really intended with it? Pens are not useful in treaties too....

[momuuu]

I'm starting to think everything that happened with the aoe competitive gameplay was an accident or luck lol. The developers really seem bad at developing to me tbh.

[Kaiserklein]

Lol why do you even say the pen sucks ? If you get 10 cows or yaks it's op wtf, you can totally invest 200w from your 700w to get that 4-5k food later

[Atomiswave]

I'm starting to think everything that happened with the aoe competitive gameplay was an accident or luck lol. The developers really seem bad at developing to me tbh.

Quite the opposite, i think they overstretched with AOE III. Made bunch of content and features which in the end turned out to be of little use in competitive play. Pen idea for example sounds interesting on paper, but its quite another story in practice. Revolution aspect of the game is also nice feature. AOE III is grand rts when you look what it offers, but competitive play dumbs list down considerably, which is completely normal.

[momuuu]

Lol why do you even say the pen sucks ? If you get 10 cows or yaks it's op wtf, you can totally invest 200w from your 700w to get that 4-5k food later

I was referring to the no livestock map pen thing, probably the way they intended that building to be (RE maps have very little livestock usually).

[Kaiserklein]

Well it's a situational building but it can still find a use on some maps. Obviously it sucks most of time, but it's like the saloon or the church for example, sometimes you use them

[Garja]

AA is just too expensive compared to many cards that you can send (like brit musk cards or Dutch inf cards) I think. You can tweak it I guess, its kinda lame for an entire building to not be viable. But hey, livestock pen is also shit.

It is viable, and I mean the card. But you normally send it after other unit ups. Or for colonial civs like brits and russia maybe in late colonial.