what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

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Great Britain britishmusketeer
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by britishmusketeer »

IP Man wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:
IP Man wrote:Ports basically get bigger vill shipments than other civs, and still nobody realises that.
Instead of sending 5 vils, they can send 700food and make 7 vills instead of 5. They will also get build bounty for that.
In age 3, they can send 1000 food which is equal to 10 villagers.
If they make normal vills from 1 TC and army from barracks/stable while using the 700food and 1000 food shipment to make vills from other civs they can be top civ, but still nobody realises that because everybody is expecting that they will get free vills from the TC, and everybody keeps sending 700 coin while all 20/25 vills are on hunts and you expect that there will be enough hunts...

Except that the vill shipment arrives instantly and doesn't require the tc(s) to be idle for 3 min.

Thats why they get more TCs and they get more vills, so they can catchup with gathering vs the 5 vills who have arrived instantly.
Also, lets not forget that half of the civs who have 5 vills shipment have a slow age up option in which they miss 4 vill batches.

The thing is that the vills are valuable at 6 min, whereas at 9 min when you finally catch up in vills, map control becomes more important than who has the most vills. You will be making vills constantly regardless so shipping 700f is just throwing away vill seconds unless you have no hunt.
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by Kaiserklein »

IP Man wrote:Ports basically get bigger vill shipments than other civs, and still nobody realises that.
Instead of sending 5 vils, they can send 700food and make 7 vills instead of 5. They will also get build bounty for that.
In age 3, they can send 1000 food which is equal to 10 villagers.
If they make normal vills from 1 TC and army from barracks/stable while using the 700food and 1000 food shipment to make vills from other civs they can be top civ, but still nobody realises that because everybody is expecting that they will get free vills from the TC, and everybody keeps sending 700 coin while all 20/25 vills are on hunts and you expect that there will be enough hunts...

Lol, you get 5 vils instantly with another civ. If port guy sends 700 food he will need his 2nd tc working for 2 min 5 seconds before he gets 5 vils out. 5 vils with steel traps would gather almost 700f during those 2 min 5, lol... While port vils will come out one by one so you will lose half these 700f during those 2 mins.
But more importantly, the age 1 matters more. In age 1 you have 1 tc as port, and can't ship vils. So you age up with a shit eco of 13/14 vils with eco theory. So you're already ~2 vils behind, then in colo you can't ship 5 vils so you're 7 vils behind. Also your eco has basically -4 vils at a given time, because you need 4 vils on food to pay for the vil production in second tc, so you're 11 vils behind, let's say 10 vils because of eco theory. You need 4 min 10 sec to catch up with this vil count with your second tc ; this tc starts producing around 4 min 30 - 5 min depending on your age up time. So at 8 min 40 - 9 min 10 in the game, at last, you have the same eco as someone who just shipped 3 and 5 vils. And before that mark you lost a ton of resources because you had less vils, so you will need even more time to have equal resources.
With 80f vils it's obviously different though, you need the same time to get a decent eco but the boom is cheaper so you need less time to reach equal resources (you get +40f per 25 seconds compared to RE patch)
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by Hazza54321 »

listen to this guy, he has good insight ^^
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by iNcog »

you need less time to reach equal resources (you get +40f per 25 seconds compared to RE patch)


Isn't it less a question of time, and more a question of the amount of resources you can spare for military production?

The boom between 80f villagers and 100f villagers is just as fast in terms of time, if we assume that you are constantly producing villagers out of both of the TCs (or all three, in Fortress age). The limitation to villager production is never resources, it's always time (since you can only train one villager at a time).

So the boom isn't faster per se, but it is cheaper. So you have more resources to spare to make military units, or research upgrades.

80f is better than hunting dogs as well, since that makes Ports have more resources to spare for military production, without using up their hunts faster. It's just a perfectly intelligent change.

That to me is why I don't get why Portuguese suddenly have an OP economy. The boom itself is no faster than it was before, however Ports will still get out more units over a given period of time, or start researching upgrades faster.
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I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by momuuu »

With ports there is some resource limitation though.
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by forgrin »

Ports don't have an "OP" economy. The difference now is that you can't just camp outside their base until 12-14 mins versus Ports because Ports can actually have a decent military at this time compared to RE. Once people get that (you have to treat them kinda like Japan scaling-wise, just later timing), Ports will be perfectly mid-tier IMO.
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by zoom »

Hazza54321 wrote:listen to this guy, he has good insight ^^

He does actually...
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by deleted_user0 »

#BoycottZoom
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Re: what went wrong? why the dutch and porto considered "LAME" now?

Post by Hazza54321 »

zoom wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:listen to this guy, he has good insight ^^

He does actually...

and you do?

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