map issues

Netherlands momuuu
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Re: map issues

Post by momuuu »

We're a little bit thin on developers I think, Adam, H2O and 91 did so much work for us. Let's hope Buckethead won't suffer the same fate.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: map issues

Post by zoom »

Jonatas would not dare krossing the Mankl!

Join me in saying the Lord's Prayer:

Our Mankl on ESOC,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on ESO, as it is on ESOC.
Give us this day our daily Mankl-tilt,
and forgive us our RE games,
as we also have forgiven Garja.
And lead us not into quicksearch,
but deliver us from Moesbar.
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Re: map issues

Post by iNcog »

Aman Aman
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: map issues

Post by pecelot »

iNcog wrote:The biggest problem is that the level of support ESOC is trying to do is approaching levels where the people working on the project quickly find themselves investing massive amounts of time. That time is time not spent enjoying AoE3 or doing other, more fun things.

I'd rather they slow down the pacing a little. Focus on making what we already have super good.

Issue with that is that often times, 50% of the effort in a project is spent on the last 10% of the work.

Community needs to be more understanding of the team and the team needs to reallocate the work-load (amongst themselves or others) so that everyone doesn't have to go for a second full-time job (which doesn't pay, but puts you in the way of constant criticism, lol). That's partly what happened to H2O, Musketeer925 and 91.

tl;dr fuck off you drips

As far as I remember, you were the one to insist on releasing the patch ASAP so that you can finally play :twisted:
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Re: map issues

Post by iNcog »

Well I think that implementing balance changes is something which can be relatively straightforward and quick to do, especially since the framework which Musketeer925 left behind is probably very solid.

The difference here is releasing a ton of new maps and/or working on new features, etc. The more maps you release, the more support you need behind to avoid potential issues, for example.

In hindsight, with the state of ESO, it was probably better not to release the patch anyway.
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: map issues

Post by _H2O »

i have had missing cliff spawn on colorado as well
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Re: map issues

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah the Hudson TP line is very often unfair. Also the gold mine you should have on top on your base sometimes doesn't spawn.
And on arkansas hunts spawn is very random, it can go from 2 to 4 hunts herdable to your tc I think.

The maps are very good overall but sometimes there are mapscrews ; tbh i'd rather see less new maps (there already are a lot) and no mapscrews
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Re: map issues

Post by n0el »

Unfortunately I don't think its ever possible to not have a map screw, its just the way the game is coded.
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Re: map issues

Post by Kaiserklein »

Ofc you can't have 0% mapscrews. But hudson is the only map with a varying number of available TPs, so I'm pretty sure it can be fixed.
Same for the goldmines, some maps almost always have all mines perfectly spawned, for example I never got screwed on high plains (despite playing on it a lot). Whereas on hudson, I'd say you miss the top mine like 1/4 of games, I'm sure this could be fixed as well. Same for arkansas hunts
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: map issues

Post by iNcog »

You don't get screwed on Guinea since everything is fixed anyway.
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: map issues

Post by pecelot »

I confirm, sometimes on Hudson the TPs are 'random' in terms of access and on Arkansas the hunts can be pretty bad.
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Re: map issues

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah, and these issues mean that those maps aren't really competitive... At least you can rehost when you lack hunts on arkansas, but on hudson if you have 2 tps available while your opponent has 4 you won't know it until you want to build them
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: map issues

Post by _H2O »

The map team strategically said no purely fixed maps. Some are more fixed than others though. Manchuria mines are fixed for example. Colorado trade route is fixed. This game would get stale much faster if there was no randomization. Plus handling those differences is a skill in this game.
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Italy arcangelusregis
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Re: map issues

Post by arcangelusregis »

i agree.. they should be just like sc2 maps
One day i'll be Colonel, you will play with me, and you'll lose
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Re: map issues

Post by Kaiserklein »

Ofc we need maps not to be 100% fixed, and it is a skill to adapt to the map, but I think one guy having 2 tps available and the other guy having 4 tps available is much too imbalanced... It means that one guy could get only 2 tps stagecoach, even if he has a massive mapcontrol, while he expected to have 4. When we practiced ger vs spain with diarouga for example, and he did some stagecoach build, he was lucky to have 4 tps sometimes, but he could as well have been screwed with only 2 tps, how is that balanced ? In a tourney game if you click in for the mu ger vs spain on hudson, having atp boom in mind, then sending atp 2nd card before realizing when you want to build tps that you can take only 2... It can just cost you the game really. Or even in ger vs azzie match up, if i can build my tp under his base on hudson, it's really good because if he fb he will be really far from that tp ; but sometimes I can, sometimes I can't ?
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: map issues

Post by britishmusketeer »

I personally think there should be a few fixed perfectly balanced maps with no treasures.
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Re: map issues

Post by _H2O »

Maps are not perfect but they are miles better in design than old maps. I don't think mAps is an area of improvement for ESOC tbh.
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Re: map issues

Post by Darwin_ »

_H2O wrote:Maps are not perfect but they are miles better in design than old maps. I don't think mAps is an area of improvement for ESOC tbh.

That may be true, but it would probably take Garja, Rikkikipu, or Durokan a few hours to fix the blaring mistakes in Arkansas, Klondike and Cascade.
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Re: map issues

Post by Durokan »

britishmusketeer wrote:I personally think there should be a few fixed perfectly balanced maps with no treasures.


I can upload one if you want. I will call it plains, because that's what it looks like :)

Also somewhere over on my map workshop there is a map that Jerom asked me to do that mimics Xel Naga Caverns from starcraft. it's pretty sweet
Check out my Custom Map Workshop here!
http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?p=98718#top
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Re: map issues

Post by momuuu »

Durokan wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:I personally think there should be a few fixed perfectly balanced maps with no treasures.


I can upload one if you want. I will call it plains, because that's what it looks like :)

Also somewhere over on my map workshop there is a map that Jerom asked me to do that mimics Xel Naga Caverns from starcraft. it's pretty sweet

I still have to go over that map to give some pointers for it. Remind me of it tomorrow pls.
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Re: map issues

Post by _H2O »

Darwin_ wrote:
_H2O wrote:Maps are not perfect but they are miles better in design than old maps. I don't think mAps is an area of improvement for ESOC tbh.

That may be true, but it would probably take Garja, Rikkikipu, or Durokan a few hours to fix the blaring mistakes in Arkansas, Klondike and Cascade.


The amount of time spent getting those 3 maps to where they are is probably a lot more than you realize. I do not see any glaring mistakes in them.
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Re: map issues

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

_H2O wrote:Maps are not perfect but they are miles better in design than old maps. I don't think mAps is an area of improvement for ESOC tbh.

They are far better than RE maps that's for sure.
We're all happy to have very good maps, but wouldn't it be better to have perfect maps?
Also it has nothing to do with adaptation, that's like when japs say that they don't play on the EP because they prefer to adapt to RE maps, when you have 2TPs while your opponent has 4, you're just fucked.

And as kaiser said, I would accept some MUs in tourney on a 4 tp map (like spain vs ger for example), while I would rather pick an other civ on a 2 tp map.
The issue isn't that there are different spawns (although it is one imo) but that one player can get 2 more tp.

Also arkansas and kamchatka can have big hunt issues. Sometimes I miss 2 hunts (2 hunts wtf, don't tell me that it's not game).
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Re: map issues

Post by Garja »

Those big hunt issues happen like 10% of times, if you can do better without reducing the randomness you're welcome.
As for Hudson TP it is cause the trade route as random waypoints instead of fixed ones. It's not even that big of a deal but I guess it will be fixed. I don't think you can ever build only 2 posts on Hudson anyway.
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Re: map issues

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

It's more like 20-25% tbh.
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Re: map issues

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah I noticed it quite often. It didn't happen on old arkansas though, why ?
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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