Are goons going to get nerfed?

[Garja]

Half MUs which tho?

[IP Man]

Otto is still probably top3 or so on land TP maps. And with the old same build every game. I can only see them losing to the 7.40 semi FF civs. I guess new maps also make it more fair for civs like Brits, India, Spain and Aztecs.

Caracole must provide a range up because goon targeting frankly sux. They somehow have problems when they are tasked to attack move objects like cav that move (bit like cannons do as well). More los and range improves their unit tracking so it's a fine up.
20% RR is a tested change. Was the same on old FP and it worked fine. Also is objectively not drastic or too big, since 30% is quite a premium value.


Btw isn't desert terror x4.0 now, as opposed to old x4.5? In any case zambs are good. They have basically the same stats and cost of skirms but a different (and much bigger) multiplier.

I think zambs have 3.5x vs cav as standard and with the card they have 4.0x vs cav

[[Armag] diarouga]

Half MUs which tho?

Well japan, india, azzy, france, ger, dutch, spain, probably also port and brit.

[Garja]

Dont see india or japan automatically winning now, nor dutch, frankly no spain either and probably not brits tho that's possible. Also still not sure about aztecs, could be.

[howlingwolfpaw]

goons need a melee resist. Hussars can do quite well vs them if they are not micro-ed because the hussar is resisting that ranged damage but is doing x2 the damage of its melee attacks because melee is faster attacking. So they basically have the same attack at that point, but hussar has more Hp. The goon may get 1-2 shots off before the hussar gets to them. If they had a melee resist then goons would be balanced to kill hussar yet not kill infantry. This would also make battles more dynamic rather than relying on an army of OP range resist

[howlingwolfpaw]

Ok so I looked up the stats (this is based on non patch, I don't have those numbers) for my point. Hussar= 320 Hp 30(x2=60 every 3 sec) base attack (but could be upgraded to vet in age 3). goon= 240 hp 26x3 = 78- 30% resist= 55 every 3 sec. A hussar kills a goon in 4 hits. A goon kills a hussar in 6 hits but will get shots off first. they are basically equal without micro. now add a 30% melee resist for goons to the equation is 42 attack ever 3 sec taking 6 hits to kill a goon. now the goon is superior to the hussar that it is meant to counter and even more so with proper micro.

[deleted_user0]

Goon doesnt have melee resist, thats cav archer. And huss resists .20 range

[howlingwolfpaw]

I am making a case that it should, having a range resist does not make sense that is why the unit is OP. It resist skirm damage which is its best counter. Its like what would muskets be like if they also had a ranged resist.

Buff good HP a little and give a melee resist. make the world whole again.

[deleted_user0]

There is no point to resist melee, cuz melee units shouldnt touch them

Problem isnt the resist so much, but more poor counters on skirms

[howlingwolfpaw]

unless you micro them back hussars do catch them and they lose to hussars. they are meant to counter hussars but they don't do a good enough job, and skirms likewise don't do a good enough job killing goons.

[Dsy]

unless you micro them back hussars do catch them and they lose to hussars. they are meant to counter hussars but they don't do a good enough job, and skirms likewise don't do a good enough job killing goons.

In an 1000+ ping game mabye they catch otherwise they dont.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Nerf even goons? Then French will be even worse...

[deleted_user0]

unless you micro them back hussars do catch them and they lose to hussars. they are meant to counter hussars but they don't do a good enough job, and skirms likewise don't do a good enough job killing goons.

you are supposed to micro them back... there is no point to say what if u dont micro them... its like saying pikemen beat falconets when you pop them right in front of them out of the tc...

[Kaiserklein]

Lol goons should only tank ranged attacks, never melee ones. Giving them a melee resist would basically be a nerf because goons would drop really fast at range, while it wouldn't bring them anything vs melee units because they're supposed to kite anyway.
Cav archers and war wagons do have a melee resist because they're not fast enough / don't have a good enough shooting animation to kite perfectly melee units. Goons don't need that.

[sdsanft]

The whole point of goons is that you have to kite them. They were designed to be trash without micro but really good with it. If you can't micro than you might as well just make halbs and hope your opponent can't micro either.