Are goons going to get nerfed?

[IP Man]

Currently, they are just too strong and their 30% RR is just ridiculous.
So, their current stats are:
200 HP
30% RR
22 attack (3x vs cav)=66 attack vs cav

What i propose:

200 HP (their HP not to be touched)
nerf their RR to either 20% or 10% (ruyters have 10% RR)
nerf their attack to 16 or 17 attack and make their multiplier vs cav to be 4x (same as zambs).

I was also thinking about giving them 0.75x multiplier vs infantry, so people wil stop using them vs infantry (musks/skirms).
Yes, this is also a reasonable change because the same way you use huss to kill skirms and skirms have 0.75x vs huss, dragoons should have 0.75x vs infantry,because you use infantry to counter them.

[Garja]

20% will be the change for next patch update. Their dps is already garbage for a 2 pop unit.

[Atomiswave]

There is already topic about this. Recommended change is -10% rr.

[IP Man]

20% will be the change for next patch update. Their dps is already garbage for a 2 pop unit.

What do you think about lowering their base damage and increasing their multiplier vs cav?

[Garja]

No need. As I said their dps is already bad.

[Atomiswave]

20% is too much....

[deleted_user]

You're right. 20% is too much rr%. Let's give them a negative rr multiplier so that villagers can 2 shot a goon. Cdb's one shot though, gotta keep with civs' unique bonuses.

[deleted_user]

You're right. 20% is too much rr%. Let's give them a negative rr multiplier so that villagers can 2 shot a goon. Cdb's one shot though, gotta keep with civs' unique bonuses.

[momuuu]

goon nerf in 1v1 might not be that huge. In team its very wanted I believe.

[IP Man]

You're right. 20% is too much rr%. Let's give them a negative rr multiplier so that villagers can 2 shot a goon. Cdb's one shot though, gotta keep with civs' unique bonuses.

lol, currently they have 22x3=66 attack vs cav.
with the change they will have 17x4=68 attack vs cav.
so, whats the problem?

[[Armag] diarouga]

You're right. 20% is too much rr%. Let's give them a negative rr multiplier so that villagers can 2 shot a goon. Cdb's one shot though, gotta keep with civs' unique bonuses.

lol, currently they have 22x3=66 attack vs cav.
with the change they will have 17x4=68 attack vs cav.
so, whats the problem?

Their attack is fine, the problem is that they are too hard to kill.

[zoom]

The answer is that it seems likely at this time. The problem I see is that they are not countered hard enough for their utility in general and speed in particular. The alternatives I see are the following:

– Decrease Dragoon ranged resistance from 30% to 20%.
– Change all ranged infantry's "cavalry" multiplier to a "heavy cavalry" multiplier, increasing its damage output against light cavalry by 1/3.
– Decrease Dragoon and Musket Rider speed from 7.25 to 7 or 6.75.
– "Ranged Cavalry Caracole" improvement range & line-of-sight effect removed. Attack effect increased from 10% to 20%.

[deleted_user]

From %30 to %20 is radical nerf.. the goal should been minimal changes. (Maybe try %25 rr first?)
No suprise if we see thread GOONS ARE TOO WEAK.
After next update release.

[forgrin]

Should have been a training speed increase. The problem has always been goons IN MASS, so just make them harder to mass.

[Atomiswave]

From %30 to %20 is radical nerf.. the goal should been minimal changes. (Maybe try %25 rr first?)
No suprise if we see thread GOONS ARE TOO WEAK.
After next update release.

5 changes nothing, with 10 they need one shot less to fall, which sounds small but in reality it could be game changer for some mus.

[Dsy]

– "Ranged Cavalry Caracole" improvement range & line-of-sight effect removed. Attack effect increased from 10% to 20%.

Its a very nice idea. 15% would be nicer as magic number of tad. XD

[deleted_user]

From %30 to %20 is radical nerf.. the goal should been minimal changes. (Maybe try %25 rr first?)
No suprise if we see thread GOONS ARE TOO WEAK.
After next update release.

5 changes nothing, with 10 they need one shot less to fall, which sounds small but in reality it could be game changer for some mus.

Making it %20 will effect to the balance directly. Same happened with iro.otto sioux nerfs. They were top tier but now they are worst civs. If u look at the fact. They werent nerfed more than %10 probably. But it changed civ meta.

[Darwin_]

Zambs have 3x multiplier. Only 4x with desert terror.

[Atomiswave]

From %30 to %20 is radical nerf.. the goal should been minimal changes. (Maybe try %25 rr first?)
No suprise if we see thread GOONS ARE TOO WEAK.
After next update release.

5 changes nothing, with 10 they need one shot less to fall, which sounds small but in reality it could be game changer for some mus.

Making it %20 will effect to the balance directly. Same happened with iro.otto sioux nerfs. They were top tier but now they are worst civs. If u look at the fact. They werent nerfed more than %10 probably. But it changed civ meta.

In my opinion otto is more or less balanced, people don't play them too much on ep because they are not op anymore. Also, silk road opened some interesting options which are overlooked.

Some changes for Iro will be reverted and Sioux is tough one, I think they are worst of the bunch, and certainly deserve big buffs.

PS: If goon -10rr proves too much, i would certainly go with training time increasment instead.

[zoom]

Zambs have 3x multiplier. Only 4x with desert terror.

They have 3.5 with Desert Terror. Desert Terror is shit – especially for Zamburaks.

[Dsy]

– "Ranged Cavalry Caracole" improvement range & line-of-sight effect removed. Attack effect increased from 10% to 20%.

Implement this with 15% and no need rr nerf. Huh?

[Darwin_]

Zambs have 3x multiplier. Only 4x with desert terror.

They have 3.5 with Desert Terror. Desert Terror is shit – especially for Zamburaks.

Actually, I thought it was 4? Lol. Dessert Terror buff pls.

[Garja]

Otto is still probably top3 or so on land TP maps. And with the old same build every game. I can only see them losing to the 7.40 semi FF civs. I guess new maps also make it more fair for civs like Brits, India, Spain and Aztecs.

Caracole must provide a range up because goon targeting frankly sux. They somehow have problems when they are tasked to attack move objects like cav that move (bit like cannons do as well). More los and range improves their unit tracking so it's a fine up.
20% RR is a tested change. Was the same on old FP and it worked fine. Also is objectively not drastic or too big, since 30% is quite a premium value.


Btw isn't desert terror x4.0 now, as opposed to old x4.5? In any case zambs are good. They have basically the same stats and cost of skirms but a different (and much bigger) multiplier.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Otto is still probably top3 or so on land TP maps. And with the old same build every game. I can only see them losing to the 7.40 semi FF civs. I guess new maps also make it more fair for civs like Brits, India, Spain and Aztecs.

Caracole must provide a range up because goon targeting frankly sux. They somehow have problems when they are tasked to attack move objects like cav that move (bit like cannons do as well). More los and range improves their unit tracking so it's a fine up.
20% RR is a tested change. Was the same on old FP and it worked fine. Also is objectively not drastic or too big, since 30% is quite a premium value.


Btw isn't desert terror x4.0 now, as opposed to old x4.5? In any case zambs are good. They have basically the same stats and cost of skirms but a different (and much bigger) multiplier.

Sure otto are top 3, they only lose half their MUs after all, and they even beat sioux/iro, which are the 2 best civs in the game!

Edit: Actually they are top 4, because there is Russia before.

[Hazza54321]

Otto is still probably top3 or so on land TP maps. And with the old same build every game. I can only see them losing to the 7.40 semi FF civs. I guess new maps also make it more fair for civs like Brits, India, Spain and Aztecs.

Caracole must provide a range up because goon targeting frankly sux. They somehow have problems when they are tasked to attack move objects like cav that move (bit like cannons do as well). More los and range improves their unit tracking so it's a fine up.
20% RR is a tested change. Was the same on old FP and it worked fine. Also is objectively not drastic or too big, since 30% is quite a premium value.


Btw isn't desert terror x4.0 now, as opposed to old x4.5? In any case zambs are good. They have basically the same stats and cost of skirms but a different (and much bigger) multiplier.

Sure otto are top 3, they only lose half their MUs after all, and they even beat sioux/iro, which are the 2 best civs in the game!

Edit: Actually they are top 4, because there is Russia before.

russia2stronk