Fortress shipment

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Jerom wrote:My official position is that the limit of x/x is 1 and nothing less, but I like to go beyond that.

Unfortunately all you guys then say is that yo ucant divide by zero which is disappointing.
To me the fact that you don't seem to understand the implications of what you're saying is disappointing. Your position is that "problematic points" in a function, which is to say whenever you divide by zero, should be assigned the value of that function's limit as x approaches that problematic point. Correct?

What this practically does is allow division by zero. By stating the above, you are saying that 1/0 = infinity, 0/0 = 1 etc. If you disagree with those statements then you are not being consistent.
(you are also saying everything equals everything but let's not get into that one)

It practically does allow division by zero in the sense that you get the result it was supposed to be, which is great. 1/0 being infinity is actually a very practical result, but I spoke about existing limits. But what my suggestion would be is that in a function the limits automatically replace the point for the problematic values in a function. So if f(x) = x/x then f(0) would be defined. Its basically the inverse of having to define the missing points manually, rather if you want points excluded you have to define that like ovi did a few points up. Its in a sense just a notational suggestion that gives the function itself rather more consistency than less.
Yes so you are allowing division by zero for convenience. Again I'm curious about how this has helped you? Examples please.

In the end I guess I just don't agree that dividing by zero in maths being impossible is inconsistent or ugly or impractical. In fact I would argue that the opposite is true; after all in practice it is also very impossible to divide by zero, and you run into all kinds of actual inconsistencies in mathematics if you were to allow it.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by momuuu »

You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Fortress shipment

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pecelot wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
pecelot wrote:indeed guys, forts are pretty situational, it's risky to put them in decks as they may turn out to be uneffective!

Still not as ineffective as refrigeration and royal mint. People love those cards but it's totally undeserved, they are only viable in very long games which are rare and unpredictable which means you have to put the card in every deck just in case. The last time I sent either of these cards is when I was in a long fortress war and there were very little resources left on the map and it was my last fortress card. If I had colonial unit shipments left I would have sooner sent those, or better yet land grab.

Although to be fair, you gain a lot in the late game. It's pretty similar to factories ā€” you have to have them in your decks, despite the fact that you are able to send them in like 1/10 games. Had you not put them there, though, you'd be put on a major disadvantage, and the same applies to Royal Mint and Refrigeration IMO ā€” when the vill numbers are maxed out and you have around 35ā€”40 vills gathering both food and coin, it gives you a huge boost overall. It gets less significant when the game ends in the Imperial Age, as there are a lot of other upgrades and these two cards enlarge only the base gathering rates, but still I think it's a must in most cases. Sometimes, when I don't have too much space in the Fortress Age, I leave Refrigeration in and put the ā€žCigar Roller" card (age 2, 20%).
A game going that late is just too rare in sup 1v1. I've hit imperial in a serious sup game maybe twice in 10000 games.. For the record I'm not at all arguing against these cards in teamgames, where they are very good. Factories are insanely strong, and the first card you send in IV if you can afford it. I've done my share of FI builds and factories are a must have in those decks. Refrig/Royal mint however are cards you only send if you have nothing else left in fortress.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?
Assuming you meant x = 0, I don't see the problem no. After all, practically it is impossible to divide something into zero parts which means we are still perfectly representing reality here.

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.
Care to explain how the latter doesn't do that? "undefined" is the mathematical way of saying "You can't do that".
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by momuuu »

Id argue 1000f or so is often better than refrigeration or royal mint. Actually a lot of cards seem better than those.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:
Jerom wrote:You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?
Assuming you meant x = 0, I don't see the problem no. After all, practically it is impossible to divide something into zero parts which means we are still perfectly representing reality here.

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.
Care to explain how the latter doesn't do that? "undefined" is the mathematical way of saying "You can't do that".

You problably dont see the problem because the implications of the limit haven't dawned upon you. It almost literally means the value is defined except that it is not.

It's the mathematical way of saying this formula doesn't work for that. It is a weaker argument and especially less insightful, after all the reason you cant do that is because you cant conquor an infinite force.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by zoom »

This whole page made me sad and disappointed.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by momuuu »

I should move all the unrelated posts into a seperate topic tbh, but thats actually a huge pain in the ass and takes an amount of time that I dont have.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by dietschlander »

^Having a cup of coffee while watching topics is much more fun
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Anyway, nuancing isn't your forte, so I'll agree with you like I would with a 8 year old: violence is bad, don't do hard drugs and stay in school Benj98
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by pecelot »

@Goodspeed , the Imperial Age was just an example, I get it, but still even if you go to late Fortress, which happens more often, IMO you should send it.
@Jerom , you can argue res/units shipments are better, but I think in the long term, and the game is in a deadlock, it's a better investment, as it should quickly turn out to be more efficient than let's say 1000f.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Jerom wrote:You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?
Assuming you meant x = 0, I don't see the problem no. After all, practically it is impossible to divide something into zero parts which means we are still perfectly representing reality here.

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.
Care to explain how the latter doesn't do that? "undefined" is the mathematical way of saying "You can't do that".

You problably dont see the problem because the implications of the limit haven't dawned upon you. It almost literally means the value is defined except that it is not.
The implication of the limit is that you can approach a value but never reach it. lim x->0 1/x = infinity (for +x) because 1/x approaches infinity as x approaches zero. Neither of those values is ever reached because that's what a limit is. So the value is not defined, your vague statements about limits meaning that the value is defined except that it's not sound like the ramblings of a mad man to me. I see no problem with limits at all.
It's the mathematical way of saying this formula doesn't work for that. It is a weaker argument and especially less insightful, after all the reason you cant do that is because you cant conquor an infinite force.
I don't consider it weaker. In fact "no solution" I would argue shows more clearly that what you're trying to do is invalid than "infinity".
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by iNcog »

BrookG wrote:
iNcog wrote:This thread got two more pages since yesterday evening. lol

I even made a desperate maths thread... :hmm:


Desperate is the right word here. Another page today. lol!

Also hitler dividing by 0, fucking loooool. only hitler would do such a thing!
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I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Jaeger »

Jerom wrote:You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.

But electrons are point particles with zero volume, aren't they? Is it literally impossible for them to occupy the same point in space because of some QM principle?
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Jaeger »

Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Jerom wrote:You dont think f=x/x for f=0 not being defined is problematic if you can obtain the value at that point itself?
Assuming you meant x = 0, I don't see the problem no. After all, practically it is impossible to divide something into zero parts which means we are still perfectly representing reality here.

1/0 being infinite explains why a charge cant be at a distance of zero from another one, while if you just call it undefined you're best argument is that its not allowed or maybe just not defined. The former forbids placing an electron on top of another electron, the latter does not necessarily do that.
Care to explain how the latter doesn't do that? "undefined" is the mathematical way of saying "You can't do that".

You problably dont see the problem because the implications of the limit haven't dawned upon you. It almost literally means the value is defined except that it is not.

It's the mathematical way of saying this formula doesn't work for that. It is a weaker argument and especially less insightful, after all the reason you cant do that is because you cant conquor an infinite force.


A limit is not a magic thing that we must correctly interpret and extend to other concepts. A limit is simply what is defined here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(%CE%B5,_%CE%B4)-definition_of_limit . It involves only real numbers.

Your arguments remind me of infinitesimals for some reason. Infinitesimals are defined as numbers greater than 0 but smaller than every positive real number. But they don't exist, at least not in the analysis that most people use.
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by sdsanft »

1 page discussing the actual topic, 8 more discussing math.

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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Ashvin »

Jerom wrote:That it is close enough. Precision is overrated.

Jerom OP
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Jaeger »

Aizamk wrote:Listen to ovi
he a mathematician
trust him more than kaisernob
or a physician

EDIT: 420th post I leave forums bye
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by pecelot »

pls don't bump threads if everything you wanna say is lol
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by Kaiserklein »

I'll never get what's wrong with bumping threads
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by pecelot »

I hope you're following me in the awesome joke pattern I went!
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by momuuu »

To be honest, I dont fully understand the problem with bumping threads. I do recall an episode at agecommunity where one guy bumped 15 threads per day with absolutely zero content and that was honestly extremely harmful for the reading experience of the forum, to the point where everyone but that guy was begging for him to be banned.

A super strict policy towards bumping threads is not required, but dead threads are usually dead for a reason. When you bump it most has been said about the subject already. If you just bump it with the words lol that is simply annoying, and should therefor be moderated quite clearly.

Where you draw the line between acceptable bumps and unacceptable bumps is rough. Team liquid, one of the community sites that I quite admire, has rather strict rules in this regard, esoc has very lenient rules in this regard (and, to be honest, against popular belief in almost every regard).
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Re: Fortress shipment

Post by deleted_user0 »

Its a fascist regime, esoc is. With il garaja carialini as dictactor

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