Rodeleros' siege attack

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No Flag Jaeger
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Jaeger »

duckzilla wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.

Well rods are a unique unit so its np that they are better than pikemen. Nobody is complaining cuir>>>hussar


But that does not fit everywhere. I can remember huge debates about the question whether Uhlan >>> Hussar....

Not saying that unique units HAVE to be better than their counterparts, but just that it's ok if they are. Since only one civ has that unit, and that civ can be balanced in other ways. It's ok that France has cuir because they are balanced in some ways, but if Japan had cuirs it would be OP.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Papist »

Let's stop talking about only balance for a second, and think about what would make this game more well rounded and exciting. Spain is currently a one trick pony, with FF as the only viable option (ATP is only viable on a handful of maps).

Making rods viable would give Spain age 2 options, and as a result make the Civ much more 3-dimensional and competitive. If you feel this would make them too strong, compensate elsewhere (e.g. nerf the pike shipments).
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by _venox_ »

Spain already has age 2 OPTIONS, this doesn't mean that Spain age 2 should be able to win against other colonial powerhouses. Buffing rodelero won't suddenly buff colonial because the standard unit composition is musk/huss + sometimes some rodelero, and in this composition they are good as they are now.

With your argumentation (spain ff only good strat => needs good colonial too) you could also argue for legit ff builds for brit and dutch or say that China ff is their only viable option so chukonu/pikemen need buff. Others already said that Spain is competitive enough and don't forget the missionary buff for colonial play.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by _H2O »

Spain with ATP has 4-5 variations to it.
(700 gold, 700 wood, 5 vil ff 20/20 with stagecoach)
(700 wood, 600 wood, 8 pike timing with huss bow pike)
(700 wood, 600 wood, 5 vil, 700 gold, 600 gold long colonial with hussar bow musk with an age up in queue later)
Stagecoach first or rax house into stagecoach on 700. The choices go on and on.

Then add the ff option and the two tp ff.

Plus you can either go rods or goons depending on the situation. Usually you want goons, but sometimes rods are ok too.

They have a ton of utility and options.

Stagecoach meta is also an indirect buff to xbows since it lowers their effective cost by making wood gather faster for most civs.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by _venox_ »

Without stagecoach for a colonial agenda they could do a late double rax build (H2o ftw) by getting all market ups in transition + 125w/g and getting steel traps asap with 500f age up, then send 700w for 2 baracks and 3 houses and spam 10-10-10 musketeers, follow the 700w up with 5 vill 600w (possibly add some xbows vs HI) (4vill if pushing won't help) 700g to support hussars/army or to age up. I don't know about it's viability but without tps this would still be a way to play colonial with the possibility to age up later.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

_venox_ wrote:
zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.


lol why? To buff civs with pikemen and xbows? To shift the balance around a bit more? Such a change only makes sense when it's about balancing, not buffing underused units so that they're played more.
No, to make the units a little less inviable than they are, increasing diversity.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.

Well rods are a unique unit so its np that they are better than pikemen. Nobody is complaining cuir>>>hussar
Absolutely. I never said otherwise.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

duckzilla wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.

Well rods are a unique unit so its np that they are better than pikemen. Nobody is complaining cuir>>>hussar


But that does not fit everywhere. I can remember huge debates about the question whether Uhlan >>> Hussar....
On 2.0 there's a debate to be had. On any other patch, Uhlans are simply better before the population limit has been reached.

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