Rodeleros' siege attack

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Poland pecelot
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Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by pecelot »

I remember encountering a certain buff for Rodeleros, which increased their siege attack from 10 to 20. However, I can't recall the place I found it in neither can I link it, obviously. But in general it seems like a pretty reasonable idea, given the fact that all heavy infantry units have decent siege attack. Rodeleros are not exactly Pikemen, but their task is rather similar. I'd imagine the latter received a nice boost to their siege attack from the developers as they would be useless otherwise when there are no cavalry units on the field, I don't really know, therefore, why the former don't consist of such a feature.
It may not seem so popular at this very moment as the Spanish received nice buffs to their game, but I'm of the opinion that this particular issue should be considered nonetheless, as the current state is from my point of view somewhat illogical.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Darwin_ »

Yeah rod siege would be nice, but I would rather buff both attacks for rods. Maybe buff hand attack to 13 or 14 (lowering cav multiplier as well) and buffing siege to maybe 15. 20 siege seems very high IMO.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

pecelot wrote:Rodeleros are not exactly Pikemen, but their task is rather similar. I'd imagine the latter received a nice boost to their siege attack from the developers as they would be useless otherwise when there are no cavalry units on the field

Rodeleros were nerfed into the ground back in nilla when they were too strong (same with most former overpowered units such as WW) and this was never compensated in TAD because the developer is terrible.

A siege attack buff sounds problematic for early age 3 pushes. These can already be lethal for some civs if you're not prepared and rods cost food/coin and are very cheap so they can be trained in transition easily.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by pecelot »

@Darwin_ , even +5 would be nice, I'm not gonna lie!
@Mr_Bramboy , indeed, I kind of realise that it can be seen as a completely unnecessary change, but it just seems bad for me from the design point of view. It is now how the rods are meant to be!
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

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Post by Kaiserklein »

The problem is rods with good siege attack and speed would be kinda lame because you would be able to run around the map and siege stuff. Your opponent won't be able to catch you with cav since rods shit on cav obviously, and his other units will be too slow to catch you.
Maybe we could give them 15 siege though, because 10 is really low, but 20 seems too high.

Rods are decent units btw, I always see everyone say they suck ass but honestly they're pretty fine. They do their job against cav, can give goons a hard time, and can also catch small groups of infantry. You'll never be able to catch 5 skirms with 10 musks if the skirms are at 20 range from musks, but 10 rods can do that job
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by pecelot »

Kaiserklein wrote:The problem is rods with good siege attack and speed would be kinda lame because you would be able to run around the map and siege stuff. Your opponent won't be able to catch you with cav since rods shit on cav obviously, and his other units will be too slow to catch you.
Maybe we could give them 15 siege though, because 10 is really low, but 20 seems too high.

Well, to a greater or lesser extend it can be said also about pikemen.
I'm glad you at least partially agree, though. :)
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Kaiserklein »

Except pikes can only siege and fight cav. They are useless against anything else. Rods are more polyvalent, and also faster.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Dsy »

The problem with rodeleros that they are not veteran until the ff.
And you dont send 1000w with spain early. And nonvet units in age 3 sucks.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Dsy wrote:The problem with rodeleros that they are not veteran until the ff.
And you dont send 1000w with spain early. And nonvet units in age 3 sucks.

"the problem with rodeleros that they are not veteran until the ff"
imao i thought every other unit is in age 2 already veteran .
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

It would just cause even more overlap with the Pikeman. I'd rather buff Rodelero hand attack or cost.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Jaeger »

Dsy wrote:The problem with rodeleros that they are not veteran until the ff.
And you dont send 1000w with spain early. And nonvet units in age 3 sucks.

You can get 2 TP's instead of 1 and ship 600w too.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by sdsanft »

I think an early fortress timing with very high siege potential is Spain's identity. Pushing with a bunch of pikes/rods/musk + 2 falcs is what they do. I think Ross should got fit in with that, and maybe a +5 siege damage would be nice.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Kaiserklein »

Dsy wrote:The problem with rodeleros that they are not veteran until the ff.
And you dont send 1000w with spain early. And nonvet units in age 3 sucks.

You mean, like the musks, pikes and huss they usually get ? None of those ever get veteran in standard spain games
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Papist »

It would be kind of cool to see rods get buffed. It would obviously help the FF, and it might also make rod/cav combinations in age 2 (which the Mitoe vs H20 smackdown showcased) more viable in certain match ups .
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by sdsanft »

I think buffing rods in general would be great. It would make Spain age 2 a lot more viable and if you're worried about age 3 being too stronk you can always implement a 2 culv shipment for some civs ;)
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Kaiserklein »

Rods don't need a buff and spain doesn't need a buff either
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by gibson »

Ye kaiser is definitely right..... Rods do what they're supposed to so and Spain is already possibly too good....... You can't rush them if it's a decent hunt map and their ff is insanely good..... You're basically forced to ff or do some sort of fast semi along with them or just pray the Spain player fuck up his micro
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by _H2O »

Spain has to be the least understood civ in the game right now. I think they don't need any buffs at all to be a top tier civ at the moment :D.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

Spanish might not need any buffs, although the Rodelero is a tad underwhelming. If the pikeman is ever buffed we should consider buffing the Rodelero as well.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Kaiserklein »

Rods are underused only because people don't even think about them. But if you think about it, 7 rods is a very good colonial shipment, and perfect for a mm trap. You really need a solid army to beat 7 rods + mm + 5 dogs + tc/tower fire + vils.
It's true that the fortress 9 rods shipment isn't incredible though, but I'd rather send that than 10 pikes or even 12 pikes, unless I really need siege power
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by zoom »

Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by _venox_ »

zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.


lol why? To buff civs with pikemen and xbows? To shift the balance around a bit more? Such a change only makes sense when it's about balancing, not buffing underused units so that they're played more.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by pecelot »

I'd rather see some buffs to underused features in the game than focus only on semi-FF skirm+goon balance. The idea behind my post initially, as I already explained, was not to buff the Spanish specifically, but to kind of fix broken Rodeleros' siege attack. +5 would not hurt anyone in my humble opinion and would be great from the design point of view, like I mentioned above.
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by Jaeger »

zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.

Well rods are a unique unit so its np that they are better than pikemen. Nobody is complaining cuir>>>hussar
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Re: Rodeleros' siege attack

Post by duckzilla »

ovi12 wrote:
zoom wrote:Yeah the shipments are fine I think; the Colonial Age one in particular. The unit isn't that great but it's still better than the Pikeman, per cost, so buffing it without buffing the Pikeman doesn't make sense – especially if Spanish is already strong. Personally, I think it would be good for the game if Crossbowman and Pikeman costs were decreased by 10w, and it would be interesting to test it.

Well rods are a unique unit so its np that they are better than pikemen. Nobody is complaining cuir>>>hussar


But that does not fit everywhere. I can remember huge debates about the question whether Uhlan >>> Hussar....
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