Russia on EP

[sirmusket]

Been playing a bunch of Russia lately on EP, and I think they have some real potential, now with the ability to get 2 batches of Musk and 5 coss with no idle time in tc they have really stepped up from what they were on re. I know other players like Mongo10 and Kaiser have been playing RUssia a lot on their streams and beating civilisation's like Germany with eas. I myself beat a captain French before with Russia which was one of the harder MU's for Russia on the re patch. What do you guys think? Russia Tier 1?

[gibson]

Russia is basically unchanged lol, but due to the nerfs to French and German Russia was indirectly buffed. Still can't touch Port and Spain though.

[NekoBerk]

I would like to see if Russia doesn't lose against skirms + goons and their hit and run.

[deleted_user]

if you want to fix russia you must delete the city xD

[_venox_]

I would like to see if Russia doesn't lose against skirms + goons and their hit and run.

Kaiserklein uploaded a 5 hour youtube video where he and mongo10 did some ger vs rus where you can see how good russia is in comparison to ger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pXhilchfM

[sirmusket]

Russia is basically unchanged lol, but due to the nerfs to French and German Russia was indirectly buffed. Still can't touch Port and Spain though.

I mostly agree, but to some extent disagree, the fact that now you can rush, with no idle time is so good, and they now win a lot of MU's that you would only dream about on RE. Ye Port OP, I would say Spain but im ass at them, but yeah H20 raped me with his Spain so I got a little taste ^^

[sirmusket]

I would like to see if Russia doesn't lose against skirms + goons and their hit and run.

Yeah but would you be fool to allow him to mass goon/skrim, you would just keep pressuretake map, and go for timing with much superior unit pop, I mean it's not as easy to just ff and mass skirm/goon free with units in base. I played Fre vs Russia vs Ghost, pre good fre player, and my score was higher towards end, cause he was idled so much

[sirmusket]

I would like to see if Russia doesn't lose against skirms + goons and their hit and run.

Kaiserklein uploaded a 5 hour youtube video where he and mongo10 did some ger vs rus where you can see how good russia is in comparison to ger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pXhilchfM

Yeah I watched this, Russia has improved no doubt, but the nerf in Fre/Ger also makes the improvement misleading

[sirmusket]

if you want to fix russia you must delete the city xD

R.I.P SomppuKunkku

[gibson]

Russia is basically unchanged lol, but due to the nerfs to French and German Russia was indirectly buffed. Still can't touch Port and Spain though.

I mostly agree, but to some extent disagree, the fact that now you can rush, with no idle time is so good, and they now win a lot of MU's that you would only dream about on RE. Ye Port OP, I would say Spain but im ass at them, but yeah H20 raped me with his Spain so I got a little taste ^^

The Russia change is largely irrelevant......in age 1 its the equivalent of finding a 45 food treasure......15 food every 50 seconds or w/e just doesn't amount to anything really.

[Garja]

It does matter. For example you can market NP now with 100w and 100g crates. Can TP with 200w and 600f. In any case is the progression which is smoother, even after age1.

[gibson]

It does matter. For example you can market NP now with 100w and 100g crates. Can TP with 200w and 600f. In any case is the progression which is smoother, even after age1.

You already could do market on 100g 100w and you still can't tp on 200w without going 17 vil which you could do before anyway. But yea that 4 seconds faster really makes russia Op.

[Garja]

No, now market is smooth, before it only was with quite good treasures. And as for the TP I just did yesterda, as well as saw others doing it. 4 seconds btw does matter too.

[_venox_]

Russia is basically unchanged lol, but due to the nerfs to French and German Russia was indirectly buffed. Still can't touch Port and Spain though.

I mostly agree, but to some extent disagree, the fact that now you can rush, with no idle time is so good, and they now win a lot of MU's that you would only dream about on RE. Ye Port OP, I would say Spain but im ass at them, but yeah H20 raped me with his Spain so I got a little taste ^^

The Russia change is largely irrelevant......in age 1 its the equivalent of finding a 45 food treasure......15 food every 50 seconds or w/e just doesn't amount to anything really.

For 1.lts like me now I am able to age even before minute 3 with Russia where on RE I struggled to age up on time, and also allows you to get 3 villagers and a musketeer batch + 5 cossacks out really early on. The time adds up I think.

[Darwin_]

Russia is absolutely OP in 2v2, and very good in 1v1. They were already good, but the extra food in age 1, plus how easily they can maintain vill and musk production is just so good. They are like india in a way, with a good eco and good military, except they have no boom mechanic besides tps. They have equal mu's vs. almost all civs in age 2, and their age 3 isnt too bad with the nerfs to Germany and France. Russia shouldnt be changed next version of the patch, rather france and ger should be buffed, as well as some other civs like sioux and india.

Tier list currently:
1: Ports, Japs, Russia, brits and Aztec

I almost start with 300w instead of wood trickle, and get a TP. It is great IMO because you dont have to gather as much wood for your blockhouse, get a TP, and can gather extra food to ensure that you can queue both musks and vills right as you hit age two.

[gibson]

No, now market is smooth, before it only was with quite good treasures. And as for the TP I just did yesterda, as well as saw others doing it. 4 seconds btw does matter too.

It was smooth before too just like 5-10 secs slower, which ultimately probably slowed your age by 1-2 seconds so now we're up to a grand total of aging 6 seconds faster. The food nerf literally doesn't matter for tp because the biggest issue with going tp as russia is that after you gather your crates you don't have time to gather enough wood and get a house up before your first batch of vils finish so you're idling tc early in age, only for like 5-10 secs or so but still. The other issue with going tp was that since you only have 5 vils and have to gather 270( or 255) you're slow to gather wood crates and could potentially miss a pass on maps with a close tp( think patagonia or deccan). Once again food nerf does practically nothing to help this. And yea ofc being up 4 seconds faster means something, but it doesn't really make a huge difference. That's well within the margin of aging people already had on re patch. I mean if you find a 45 food treasure at second 1 of the game that doesn't suddenly make age 1 Russia op even though if you take just age 1 finding a 45 food treasure immediately is better than the current ep Russia. The change is just irrelevant, and that's all there is to it. I mean you can argue that Russia is more "smooth", whatever that means, but in reality all that's been done is speed up their age up by somewhere around 5 seconds depending on the situation.

[gibson]

Show hidden quotes

Russia is basically unchanged lol, but due to the nerfs to French and German Russia was indirectly buffed. Still can't touch Port and Spain though.

I mostly agree, but to some extent disagree, the fact that now you can rush, with no idle time is so good, and they now win a lot of MU's that you would only dream about on RE. Ye Port OP, I would say Spain but im ass at them, but yeah H20 raped me with his Spain so I got a little taste ^^

The Russia change is largely irrelevant......in age 1 its the equivalent of finding a 45 food treasure......15 food every 50 seconds or w/e just doesn't amount to anything really.

For 1.lts like me now I am able to age even before minute 3 with Russia where on RE I struggled to age up on time, and also allows you to get 3 villagers and a musketeer batch + 5 cossacks out really early on. The time adds up I think.

Are you really going to sit their and tell me that the 15 food you save on your vil batch suddenly enabled you to get out a batch of musks? On re you could have just waited for 2 seconds and than trained one. Keep in mind that getting out units faster isn't even necessarily better. For example in a Russian mirror it's often better to be a little bit slower.

[knusch]

It was smooth before too just like 5-10 secs slower, which ultimately probably slowed your age by 1-2 seconds so now we're up to a grand total of aging 6 seconds faster.

i dont get it

[Garja]

It was smooth before too just like 5-10 secs slower, which ultimately probably slowed your age by 1-2 seconds so now we're up to a grand total of aging 6 seconds faster. The food nerf literally doesn't matter for tp because the biggest issue with going tp as russia is that after you gather your crates you don't have time to gather enough wood and get a house up before your first batch of vils finish so you're idling tc early in age, only for like 5-10 secs or so but still. The other issue with going tp was that since you only have 5 vils and have to gather 270( or 255) you're slow to gather wood crates and could potentially miss a pass on maps with a close tp( think patagonia or deccan). Once again food nerf does practically nothing to help this. And yea ofc being up 4 seconds faster means something, but it doesn't really make a huge difference. That's well within the margin of aging people already had on re patch. I mean if you find a 45 food treasure at second 1 of the game that doesn't suddenly make age 1 Russia op even though if you take just age 1 finding a 45 food treasure immediately is better than the current ep Russia. The change is just irrelevant, and that's all there is to it. I mean you can argue that Russia is more "smooth", whatever that means, but in reality all that's been done is speed up their age up by somewhere around 5 seconds depending on the situation.

It wasn't smooth at all. Even with 200w it wasn't worth to do it most of times.
As for TP you obviously build the house first and then chop the wood with all 5 vills and get the TP just 40 secs later. And this is possible mostly due to the vill batch costing 15f less (so 30f in total between first and second batch). Missing the route passage is absolutely irrelevant. The shorter the route the quickier you get the next passage, and the smaller is the xp bounty anyway.
All of this, plus the extra efficiency you get for the rest of the game from the snowball effect does matter quite a lot. If you can't appreciate that I can't help.
It is the same thing as giving -5f vills for any other civ. That would help a lot in any case.
Anyway, I agree it is not the only reason why Russia is very good now. Russia was already good even before this boost.

Are you really going to sit their and tell me that the 15 food you save on your vil batch suddenly enabled you to get out a batch of musks? On re you could have just waited for 2 seconds and than trained one. Keep in mind that getting out units faster isn't even necessarily better. For example in a Russian mirror it's often better to be a little bit slower.

No, you get the batch of musks out, plus steel traps, plus no idle TC time. For the record in a Russian mirror, given two FBs you want to go no vill even if that speeds up unit production.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Wow! You beat a captain?!

russia tier 1 confirmed good unit.

[Darwin_]

Tp on 200w is only smooth with 50w or 100f. Other than that you get some pretty substantial idle time.

On the subject of eco play with russia, has anyone tried 17v up strats with russia? I used to do 17v on nilla in 3v3, but havent tried it on TAD ever. Your age up time would be more around 5 minutes, so do you guys think that it would ever be justifiable? Maybe in a straight ff?

[momuuu]

If russia is OP now they werent weak to begin with. Gibson is showing very good common sense here. Im pretty sure this was meant to be a pr change to stop the russia is so weak whiners, it hardly snowballs. Your shipping a military card first anyways so the faster age up literally doesnt snowball ecowise.

[lemmings121]

Tp on 200w is only smooth with 50w or 100f. Other than that you get some pretty substantial idle time.

On the subject of eco play with russia, has anyone tried 17v up strats with russia? I used to do 17v on nilla in 3v3, but havent tried it on TAD ever. Your age up time would be more around 5 minutes, so do you guys think that it would ever be justifiable? Maybe in a straight ff?

On a straight ff it might be good but.. When will you want do it as russia? Idk..
I haven't seen any good ff bos as russia, maybe suvorov, but thats kinda lucky /surprise, not super good...

[Kaiserklein]

It does matter. For example you can market NP now with 100w and 100g crates. Can TP with 200w and 600f. In any case is the progression which is smoother, even after age1.

You already could do market on 100g 100w and you still can't tp on 200w without going 17 vil which you could do before anyway. But yea that 4 seconds faster really makes russia Op.

No you couldn't really market on 100g 100w without aging 17, now it's easier with 14 age up. And pretty sure you can now TP on 600f start and age 14 without too much idle time.

[Kaiserklein]

And btw it's not just 45f in age 1, it snowballs. Let's say you age with market and hunt dogs for example, you're obviously gaining extra resources compared to no market, + the 15f discount. Or if you don't market but just age like 5 sec faster, then you will get every batch of 3 vils out 5 sec faster in colonial, which basically means you'll have an extra 3 vils during 5 seconds every 52 seconds, so approx another 15f per 52 seconds. So it's basically a 30f discount there... Not a 15f. See how fast it can snowball ? And there is more of this kind of stuff that you can add to the list.