ESOC Patch is unbalanced

Switzerland bobabu
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ESOC Patch is unbalanced

Post by bobabu »

The esoc patch made major changes to multiple civs. Without even playtesting those changes. Just go over the patch notes. The intend to only make small changes has been completely forgotten. More civs than ever before are unusable. More mu's than ever before are strongly favoured by one civ. To be honest the re-patch is probably more balanced. Starting over from scratch would be the best idea.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

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Post by momuuu »

did you just lose tournament game?
Switzerland bobabu
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by bobabu »

Jerom wrote:did you just lose tournament game?

Yes though it has nothing to do with that. I wanted to write this before.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by bobabu »

Jerom wrote:did you just lose tournament game?

Are you dutch? When we talk about major changes. Don't imply if you live in a glass house.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Gendarme »

Even disregarding balance, some of the changes have changed the essence of the civilizations and the game in general. When I play Iroquois on RE, I have the option to do different things with my starting travois - and I used to save it to build a corral in the colonial age, while building my longhouse with the starting wood. The option no longer exists, so Iroquois might as well start with a free longhouse next to their Town Center now; the purpose of the travois is gone as far as I can tell.

Another example is the Portuguese settler cost. There is really nothing (other than balance) to explain a 80f cost for settlers when all other civilizations are paying 100 resources (except Russia). It's an incredibly weird thing, and it is sad for a game like Age of Empires III that tries to be as historically accurate as possible.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by gh0st »

yea, also Riding School too OP shipment, should be nerfed. :uglylol:
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Jaeger »

Gendarme wrote:
it is sad for a game like Age of Empires III that tries to be as historically accurate as possible.


LOL come on....

Rodeleros beating cav? They would get rekt irl.
Dragoons very unrealistic
None of the gunpowder units (especially musketeers) missing shots? Please...
Monitors sniping 100 miles away with 100 percent accuracy?

I'm sure there are many much worse ones, I just don't know much history.@umeu
last time i cryed was because i stood on Legoļ»æ
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by lordraphael »

ye whenever i see the argument of" historically accuracy " used in whatever way i get really upset. Age of empires is not historically accurate. Not even remotely. It cant be accurate and it doesnt want to be accurate. This starts with the units
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Gendarme »

Don't get upset, please. I mean no harm. It's just weird to have Portuguese having cheaper settlers for no apparent reason.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by momuuu »

Well I think the balance is better than ever before. Its better than RE or EP1.2 for sure, at least Im basing that on the fact that nobody has figured out what the top civ is yet if you were to judge from the civ picks in tournaments. During the winter tournament it became quite clear quite quickly that Germany -> France was the optimal picking strategy and that all other civs were tier 2.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by gibson »

1v1 balance is decent. Team balance blows
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Mitoe »

I used to think this patch was pretty imbalanced, but after playing more and more on it, it actually seems to be much closer to balance than the game has ever been before. Most civs can be successful vs each other, with the exception of Iroquois and Sioux probably (those 2 civs suck).

gh0st wrote:yea, also Riding School too OP shipment, should be nerfed. :uglylol:

:(
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Atomiswave »

Gendarme wrote:Don't get upset, please. I mean no harm. It's just weird to have Portuguese having cheaper settlers for no apparent reason.


You are partially right. Ports having cheaper vills does not fit their description and identity, but bear in mind that that little change fixed almost all important problems ports had. So, until they find some better solution I fully support 80f vill workaround.
Also you should acknowledge the fact that patch is work in progress. Nothing is set in stone yet. As it stands i prefer having living and evolving meta with small problems here and there, than stale, uninteresting and broken games with re.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by deleted_user0 »

lordraphael wrote:ye whenever i see the argument of" historically accuracy " used in whatever way i get really upset. Age of empires is not historically accurate. Not even remotely. It cant be accurate and it doesnt want to be accurate. This starts with the units


nilla was actually quite historically accurate conceptually, as far as an rts game of this type can be, which means it wasnt very accurate.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by lordraphael »

umeu wrote:
lordraphael wrote:ye whenever i see the argument of" historically accuracy " used in whatever way i get really upset. Age of empires is not historically accurate. Not even remotely. It cant be accurate and it doesnt want to be accurate. This starts with the units


nilla was actually quite historically accurate conceptually, as far as an rts game of this type can be, which means it wasnt very accurate.

i think an rts game cant be historically accurate. if you mean they are mostly accurate in the "themes" that the civs have i might agree. Altho i couldnt say whats the thought behind the french or the ottomans game concept is.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by deleted_user0 »

lordraphael wrote:
umeu wrote:
lordraphael wrote:ye whenever i see the argument of" historically accuracy " used in whatever way i get really upset. Age of empires is not historically accurate. Not even remotely. It cant be accurate and it doesnt want to be accurate. This starts with the units


nilla was actually quite historically accurate conceptually, as far as an rts game of this type can be, which means it wasnt very accurate.

i think an rts game cant be historically accurate. if you mean they are mostly accurate in the "themes" that the civs have i might agree. Altho i couldnt say whats the thought behind the or the ottomans game concept is.


well accuracy comes in degrees, and obviously its a game so there is a big level of abstraction which already makes realism impossible. however, comparing it to aoe2, aoe3 is much more accurate historically, though obviously more is known about aoe3's period.

and i didnt mean the civ themes so much, which i guess have a basis in reality, but dont really represent it much. i kinda meant more how the combat plays out. on nilla massed infantry beats everything except the heaviest of cavalry and artillery. light melee cav mostly just good at harassing but not that great in pitched combat. dragoons are a bit of an abnormality, as they are kinda fictional in the way they are used in the game. historically dragoons dismounted and then fought on foot. and pikemen are a bit underwhelming in how they perform, as historically they dominated the battlefield for 2 centuries, even in the early to middle gunpowder era. In aoe its pike and bows, but historically it was pike and shot :)
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by lordraphael »

umeu wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
Show hidden quotes

i think an rts game cant be historically accurate. if you mean they are mostly accurate in the "themes" that the civs have i might agree. Altho i couldnt say whats the thought behind the or the ottomans game concept is.


well accuracy comes in degrees, and obviously its a game so there is a big level of abstraction which already makes realism impossible. however, comparing it to aoe2, aoe3 is much more accurate historically, though obviously more is known about aoe3's period.

well its not really hard to achieve more accuracy than aoc :P.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by zoom »

Gendarme wrote:Even disregarding balance, some of the changes have changed the essence of the civilizations and the game in general. When I play Iroquois on RE, I have the option to do different things with my starting travois - and I used to save it to build a corral in the colonial age, while building my longhouse with the starting wood. The option no longer exists, so Iroquois might as well start with a free longhouse next to their Town Center now; the purpose of the travois is gone as far as I can tell.

Another example is the Portuguese settler cost. There is really nothing (other than balance) to explain a 80f cost for settlers when all other civilizations are paying 100 resources (except Russia). It an incredibly weird thing, and it is sad for a game like Age of Empires III that tries to be as historically accurate as possible.
Funny, how much the quality of your post's content would benefit from the removal of "and it is sad for a game like Age of Empires III that tries to be as historically accurate as possible". Your two points are undeniably more or less agreeable.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Gendarme »

Funnu, even.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by zoom »

Gendarme wrote:Funnu, even.
I suppose.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Rikikipu »

It's easy to complain but you don't give any solutions to improve the EP balance. Tbh team games aren't worse than Re team games. Also 2v2 or 3v3 are different gamestyle.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by gibson »

Rikikipu wrote:It's easy to complain but you don't give any solutions to improve the EP balance. Tbh team games aren't worse than Re team games. Also 2v2 or 3v3 are different gamestyle.

3v3 EP is worse then 3v3 re if youre just taking into account the civs and not the maps, anti cheat etc.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by Darwin_ »

gibson wrote:
Rikikipu wrote:It's easy to complain but you don't give any solutions to improve the EP balance. Tbh team games aren't worse than Re team games. Also 2v2 or 3v3 are different gamestyle.

3v3 EP is worse then 3v3 re if youre just taking into account the civs and not the maps, anti cheat etc.

3v3 balance is probably the same, maybe a little less just because of Ports and Dutch, and 2v2 balance is just shit. Russia is so damn good and German, one of the more balanced 2v2 civs on RE, is now really weak.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by gibson »

Darwin_ wrote:
gibson wrote:
Rikikipu wrote:It's easy to complain but you don't give any solutions to improve the EP balance. Tbh team games aren't worse than Re team games. Also 2v2 or 3v3 are different gamestyle.

3v3 EP is worse then 3v3 re if youre just taking into account the civs and not the maps, anti cheat etc.

3v3 balance is probably the same, maybe a little less just because of Ports and Dutch, and 2v2 balance is just shit. Russia is so damn good and German, one of the more balanced 2v2 civs on RE, is now really weak.
Its not the same. On re civs like iro, port, dutch, german where all playable. Now iro and german are absolute trash and you have to do early damage to port and dutch or they get out of control.
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Re: ESOC PATCH IS UNBALANCED

Post by lordraphael »

gibson wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:
Show hidden quotes

3v3 balance is probably the same, maybe a little less just because of Ports and Dutch, and 2v2 balance is just shit. Russia is so damn good and German, one of the more balanced 2v2 civs on RE, is now really weak.
Its not the same. On re civs like iro, port, dutch, german where all playable. Now iro and german are absolute trash and you have to do early damage to port and dutch or they get out of control.

iro playable ?
thats new to me.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.

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