ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

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Italy Garja
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by Garja »

yurashic wrote:
Garja wrote:Nah all iro units range from good to amazing. But that's how TWC are designed, they have shit eco and op units. Let's revert Iro for the lolz.


I do not agree. Tomahawks cost more than musketeers and are significantly worse because of animation and less ranged damage. Hand cavalry costs wood and has no upgrades, but they are fine, just nothing special. Aennas are basically crossbowmen who trade long animation for 5 speed instead of 4.

Skirmishers and dragoons are fine, a bit more cost effective. Stealth is good too.

Iroquois have no falconets or culverins in age 3, so artillery is a problem.

I do not see any particularly amazing units, do you mean mantlets and rams? :)


Tomahawk are worse early on, then they have more card upgrades than any euro musk up to fortress. (They are not necessarily better than brit musks but they are by no mean a weak unit).
Kanya are nothing special, true. They only get extra HP with WC aura and 5% from vet tech.
Aenna have 1.5 rof and 2x vs HI. They are essentially better than lbows and only second to yumi really. They also potentially have like 7 or so upgrades from cards and techs, being the most upgradable Iro unit.
FP are simply the best skirm by far in fortress. And you can easily see the difference when they one-shot cav units.
Cannons are not that useful honestly, and besides that iro have light cannons which are more cost efficient than euro cannons (for the most part) and also have couple upgrades.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by deleted_user0 »

gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:Well india is one of their best mus and you're saying eco india even beats dutch so I'm saying dutch would then be super shit. I just don't think that eco india beats dutch unless eco india karni or whatever you're proposing is like super strong.
eco India looses to agressive skirm pike as well


It actually doesnt. Its really easy to hold bow rushes. The thing thats hard to hold are large timing pushes of any kind, specially. When hidden, cuz u try to age up and get caught.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by deleted_user0 »

britishmusketeer wrote:Would have to make it so that it can't build stables also imo.

Thats even worse than the first idea =_=...
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by iNcog »

If you had to change anything about Iroq, it would be to probably just revert a single nerf (if that) and see from there. I'm not sure that Iroq is as bad as people say it is though.
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by iNcog »

More importantly I want to ask whether or not any nerfs will take place at all?

I'm thinking that the best way to patch next iteration would be a small buff to the underwhelming civilizations.
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by momuuu »

iNcog wrote:If you had to change anything about Iroq, it would be to probably just revert a single nerf (if that) and see from there. I'm not sure that Iroq is as bad as people say it is though.

It feels really bad to play as iro right now. It just doesnt feel like you can win at all.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by Garja »

Well, not knowing the civ well doesn't help.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by gibson »

umeu wrote:
gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:Well india is one of their best mus and you're saying eco india even beats dutch so I'm saying dutch would then be super shit. I just don't think that eco india beats dutch unless eco india karni or whatever you're proposing is like super strong.
eco India looses to agressive skirm pike as well


It actually doesnt. Its really easy to hold bow rushes. The thing thats hard to hold are large timing pushes of any kind, specially. When hidden, cuz u try to age up and get caught.
sorry should have put India CAN lose to aggressive skirm pike. And why do you even bring up bows? Bows are shit. Skirms are actually decent units. On a 500c start Dutch can is up at 350 and can have 8 pike and 10 skirms the same time India is aging up and have a good eco followup. I mean you don't play skirm pike and then instantly win, but if India ages with Karni they're in a lot of trouble vs aggressive Dutch.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by deleted_user0 »

i beat every dutch rush possible with my india strat, and its not even hard to do. Atleast bow rushes come in crazy mass, skir pike rush is, put tc fire on the pikes and send sowar = gg. Dutch sacrifices eco and just loses.
The easiest way for dutch to lose that mu is by rushing 8 pike first with skir.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by Garja »

Dutch aggressive skirm pike is beyond shit level. It can't even damage a karni start (which is strictly better vs Dutch anyway).
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by iNcog »

Checking results, I'm quite surprised.

Germany is in bottom 3? That can't be right. Otto is above France, Spanish is also quite high. How reliable are these results?
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by momuuu »

iNcog wrote:Checking results, I'm quite surprised.

Germany is in bottom 3? That can't be right. Otto is above France, Spanish is also quite high. How reliable are these results?

Not.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by iNcog »

We are agreed.
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Garja wrote: ā†‘
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: ESOC patch balance poll #4 (1v1)

Post by zoom »

ESOCĀ© ā€“ if Jerom doesn't like it, it isn't trueĀ®

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