Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Dsy »

I think fixing starting crates is a good idea.
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Brazil lemmings121
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by lemmings121 »

imo thats a pretty good way of changing things.
maybe with fixed coin start we can revert fre and german to RE. fixed dutch coin and revert 5'th bank and only keep que cost/xp change, india wood fixed and its done too, maybe ports wood start and 90f vills... thats all debatable and needs testing, but it feels like a way a achiving a better balance then before, with even less changes in the civs.
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France Diarouga
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Diarouga »

lemmings121 wrote:imo thats a pretty good way of changing things.
maybe with fixed coin start we can revert fre and german to RE. fixed dutch coin and revert 5'th bank and only keep que cost/xp change, india wood fixed and its done too, maybe ports wood start and 90f vills... thats all debatable and needs testing, but it feels like a way a achiving a better balance then before, with even less changes in the civs.

Yeah, and the most relevant is the iro one, it's the only way to fix them.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Dsy »

It would effect japan and spain too btw,
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Atomiswave »

Fixed crates would also not interfere with "keeping civ uniqueness and theme" ep policy, so i don't see the problem. Also, nobody is suggesting to make it a permanent change, we could do beta testing first.
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Canada forgrin
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by forgrin »

lemmings121 wrote:imo thats a pretty good way of changing things.
maybe with fixed coin start we can revert fre and german to RE. fixed dutch coin and revert 5'th bank and only keep que cost/xp change, india wood fixed and its done too, maybe ports wood start and 90f vills... thats all debatable and needs testing, but it feels like a way a achiving a better balance then before, with even less changes in the civs.


IMO coin start for Ports might even be preferable, starting TP is kinda awkward to get (moreso with 90f vills) plus starting TP doesn't really benefit them much since they can't ship vills earlier.
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France Diarouga
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Diarouga »

Dsy wrote:It would effect japan and spain too btw,

Probably, I would give japan a food crate so they don't age too fast (no wood), but they have the shit gold start because it sucks. I don't know what I would give to spain, either wood or food.
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France Diarouga
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Diarouga »

forgrin wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:imo thats a pretty good way of changing things.
maybe with fixed coin start we can revert fre and german to RE. fixed dutch coin and revert 5'th bank and only keep que cost/xp change, india wood fixed and its done too, maybe ports wood start and 90f vills... thats all debatable and needs testing, but it feels like a way a achiving a better balance then before, with even less changes in the civs.


IMO coin start for Ports might even be preferable, starting TP is kinda awkward to get (moreso with 90f vills) plus starting TP doesn't really benefit them much since they can't ship vills earlier.

It still helps them but yeah, a no food crate/gold start and keeping 80f vills is fine, or just 100f vills and the 100f/100w start.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Atomiswave »

Diarouga wrote:
Dsy wrote:It would effect japan and spain too btw,

Probably, I would give japan a food crate so they don't age too fast (no wood), but they have the shit gold start because it sucks. I don't know what I would give to spain, either wood or food.


China's crates stays the same in your book right?
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France Diarouga
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Diarouga »

Atomiswave wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Dsy wrote:It would effect japan and spain too btw,

Probably, I would give japan a food crate so they don't age too fast (no wood), but they have the shit gold start because it sucks. I don't know what I would give to spain, either wood or food.


China's crates stays the same in your book right?

Naturally.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Atomiswave »

Diarouga wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:
Show hidden quotes


China's crates stays the same in your book right?

Naturally.


Sioux?
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France Diarouga
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Diarouga »

Atomiswave wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Naturally.


Sioux?

Sioux is just too unbalanced atm, it needs other changes than just crates. It's the only civ that can't be balanced with fixed crates.
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Canada forgrin
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by forgrin »

Alright guys, everyone get ready to spam "fixed starts pls" to the patch team every chance you get!
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France Rikikipu
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Rikikipu »

forgrin wrote:Alright guys, everyone get ready to spam "fixed starts pls" to the patch team every chance you get!

Don't worry forgrin although some people say untrue things :
Diarouga wrote:It's disappointing but understand that this change isn't going to happen because unfortunately the ESOC team does not care...

This topic is actually the most active topic in the EP private balance forum
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Atomiswave »

Rikikipu wrote:
forgrin wrote:Alright guys, everyone get ready to spam "fixed starts pls" to the patch team every chance you get!

Don't worry forgrin although some people say untrue things :
Diarouga wrote:It's disappointing but understand that this change isn't going to happen because unfortunately the ESOC team does not care...

This topic is actually the most active topic in the EP private balance forum


Great, that could imply fixed crates will be a thing in near future.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by zoom »

It could also imply Garja ex machina.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by zoom »

Diarouga wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Well, I got banned from ESOC for that suggestion :P

I totally agree with you and I've kept repeating this for months now, some crates favour some civ more and it can totally change the balance of a match up.

For example, when I was preparing my serie vs mankle in the winter tourney, I practiced the aztec vs ger MU a lot with Raphael and nagayumi, and actually I won every game when it was a no wood start (2 vs raph and around 10 vs nagayumi), and lost every game where it was a wood start (2 vs rapha and 4 vs nagayumi). Honestly, it's just too much to not be considered.
I unfortunately can not prove it since it is only from my experience (and as it was tournament practice, it's obvious that the games weren't recorded or streamed), but if you think about it, it's actually obvious, why?
Well, because in the aztec vs ger MU, it's about wether or not germany can age and have a shipment when they reach the 3rd age, and here the early TP. If they stay colonial and aztec just contains, they should be able to hold the timing if they play it well, but if the german player can get to the third age and hold the aztec timing, it's just game. And the early TP means that he can age sooner (the ger player will send 3sw/700w/700g and thus have his 700g sooner, and a shipment when he reaches the 3rd age).
In my game vs H2O, I could have won because he didn't have a shipment in age 3 (he probably missed a TP pass idk), but in my practice games, my opponent did have a shipment so I didn't try to commit and lost.

I know many don't like this change, because it changes the game and removes variety, but at some point if you want to balance the game, you have to make unpopular changes.

On top of that, many players don't like the fre and the ger change because it is "awkward", fine, just change it:

Give a fixed food+gold start to France and Germany, unnerf them, and the balance is better than it currently is without having to nerf them.
Russia 255f vills is broken? Same, just give them a food+wood start, that way they can go early market with gold start (just like what they can do currently), without the vill cost issue.
Want to buff Iro? Okay, then give them a food+wood start, they just have to chop 100w to take a TP which means that ff and rush builds are viable again while Iro is totally balance.

Honestly, I could just write the same about the other civs: India, Japan, Dutch etc.

I know ESOC doesn't care about my opinion, and that this change won't happen, but just don't listen to garja guys, he has no clue about this game.


Maybe you should write suggestions for all civs, because it could prove hard to find balanced amount for some of them.

It's done somewhere in the EP forums, and some were EP members were interested by that, but because of that, garja went crazy and banned me from ESOC and thus they forgot about it :P
It's disappointing but understand that this change isn't going to happen because unfortunately the ESOC team does not care...
Goodspeed does not care about French people.
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United States of America Darwin_
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Re: Fixed crate spawns for all civs?

Post by Darwin_ »

iNcog wrote:I thought Russia was in a good spot right now in terms of balance.

They are, but 255 vills (just like 80f for ports) fixed the problems for 1v1, but just ignited balance problems for team.
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