EP and its "mandate"

France iNcog
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by iNcog »

pecelot wrote:But why even a musketeer? Ports are an age-3-oriented civ, I guess it would be quite irrelevant.


Because the musketeer is an early game unit and early game is where Ports suffer. They're very strong past a certain point, even with 100f vills. However they're quite slow and getting to the point where they're strong is the most difficult part about Ports. That is why 80f vills makes Ports play super smooth, to the point where you can even play Ports in colonial. You can save food and get out more units more easily, as well as utilize the second TC.

Food cheap musketeers sort of address that, but honestly don't think too much of the suggestion, I was just giving an example of an over the top change for the sake of an example. A change you think up of in 2 minutes isn't going to be a good one really.
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by pecelot »

@iNcog , but you don't even make that many musks. It's at max 15 in colonial, and still you can send something like 700f if you're desperate. If anything, I think Ports' main threat has historically been their food-dependency, which starts to shine usually after you hit the Fortress Age on regular, not high-hunts maps. Then, you have to sustain production from 3 TCs, so 240/300 food every 25 seconds ideally, produce cassadors (80f) and dragoons (90f) or hussars (120f). Musk „buff" would literally be pointless here, in my humble opinion.
forgrin wrote:What's your reasoning then? Too big a change from RE? Let's face it; EP has literally flipped the civ tier list on its head and changed the way many civs play. We're already at the point of "big change" from RE. Fixed crates are actually small in comparison.

Not exactly. I came to a similar „conclusion" quite recently, but quickly figured out how much of an exaggeration that was. I can't see how everything is so different on EP, nor do I see how standard civs' play is so drastically changed. Are you forced to stay colonial as Germany now? No, your FF is still very viable, it's just that you can no longer rely on a pure uhlan mass, which was clearly over the top. That's good, right? You can no longer do OP things.
And also, don't state that crate spawn is a fcking game, come on. First, it was maps, now crate spawns? It sounds really dumb for me.
France iNcog
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by iNcog »

I was just giving an example of an over the top change for the sake of an example
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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United States of America _H2O
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by _H2O »

One reason you may not consider as an important part of the minimalistic approach is that we don't have the resources to test things fully. Furthermore changes that promote diversity are harder to make and require more testing. Too many changes also can lead to biases in top level player preference. You need to have a strong focused point with evidence to back why the change is good.

The port vil change is a great example. It's so targeted and on point. It addresses port specific problems and right now port is a competitive civ which is cool.
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India drsingh
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by drsingh »

_H2O wrote:One reason you may not consider as an important part of the minimalistic approach is that we don't have the resources to test things fully. Furthermore changes that promote diversity are harder to make and require more testing. Too many changes also can lead to biases in top level player preference. You need to have a strong focused point with evidence to back why the change is good.

The port vil change is a great example. It's so targeted and on point. It addresses port specific problems and right now port is a competitive civ which is cool.


What is your opinion on this crate debate. Do the random crates turn around any matchup in your opinion? And if it does, is there a need to change it? Also considering the effect it might have on achieving the final version of ep earlier or later.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by Goodspeed »

As for our mandate, I planned to post a thread explaining more about it in public but haven't got around to it. I guess I may as well post our internal change guidelines here:
A change must:
- Address a civ balance issue, or
- Address a larger-scale balance issue which is apparent in a wide variety of match ups (for example dragoon nerf, potential water changes).

A change must not:
- Standardize a unit. For example in the case of uhlans we chose to nerf HP and not attack.
- Remove or nerf techs or shipments which are unique to a civ.
- Remove or nerf a civ bonus.

A change should:
- In the case of a buff target an aspect of the civ which is unique to it (examples include Dutch bank changes, Ottoman Silk Road, Spanish unction).
- In the case of a nerf focus on the civ's start, in order to affect it as generally as possible.
- Be tweakable.

A change should not:
- Encourage a play style which is already prevalent with the civ or in the meta game.
- Discourage a play style which is rarely seen with the civ or in the meta game.
- Introduce an exception to an otherwise consistent game design (for example making TPs more expensive only for a certain civ).
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United States of America _H2O
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Re: EP and its "mandate"

Post by _H2O »

I haven't thought much about the fixed crate change.

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